Ecopia EP422 tires suck

[LeftieBiker]

I've been limited by cost, and I - HOPEFULLY - finally found a set of new Goodyear Eagle L/S tires, OEM size, for $275 shipped, from a reputable Ebay dealer. I got a $100 "service credit" when I leased my car, and hope to use that (after replacing the cabin filter myself) to have them mounted and balanced. Anyone have experience with these tires? I've read Billions and Billions of reviews while looking, and these seem to be generally quiet and precise, with only high speed hydroplaning as a negative...

Oh, and an update on the generally Loud and fairly mediocre Pirelli "Carving Edge" snow tires I used this year: they do seem, at least, to be LRR. With the warm weather back I've gotten as high as 4.4 M/KWH on them, and generally 4.3.

 

[DaveEV]

That's what I have in mind. I've been looking at Yokohama's YK580.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/detail/yk580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 205/60 is almost a pound lighter than the 205/55, the load factor is 92H instead of 91H, and it's
809 revs per mile instead of 833. The loss of speedometer/odometer accuracy isn't an issue for me.

A taller tire can be more aerodynamic than a shorter tire, too, so it could be more efficient. I've always been curious as to what a 195/65/15 tire would do to efficiency. TireRack lists some 15" wheels that fit and that tire size is just barely larger than stock - not to mention that the 15" wheels are generally really light with weighs as low as 14 lbs.

Either way, let us know how it works out. DarkStar reported that the YK580 rolls as well as the Ecopia so they are at the top of my list when my Ecopias wear out in the next couple thousand miles.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Goodyear Eagles arrived. Nice looking tires, and made in USA. However, the load rating is 89. I never drive with a fully loaded car so it should be ok, but I would have preferred 91.

 

[KillaWhat]

We have been running with the OEM Ecrapias back on for a couple months doing range testing, then just lazy about changing them back.

Today was inspection day (3 Yrs !!) and since they had to pull the wheels off, I figured it was a perfect time for a wheel swap.

Holy Crap; pulling out of the dealer I felt like I was driving a completely different car.

You get used to the way the car feels with whatever tires are on there.

This drive in on the 422's and out on the 17" Michelins was impossible to ignore.

Wow.

NIce to be back on tires I can count on and handle this well.

 

[downeykp]

I am not really sure what all of the bitc$ing is about. My Ecopias are 3 years old and 19000mi. And they drive and look great. What exactly are people looking for, Formula 1 type cornering. Auwe!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Ok, where did my last post go...???

As for the 'bitching', either all the Ecopias have weak sidewalls, especially when inflated to the pressure on the car door, or just the early, down-rated ones did. I don't want to field test the 91-rated version, because they also handle like mush, even at 40psi.

 

[KillaWhat]

I am not really sure what all of the bitc$ing is about. My Ecopias are 3 years old and 19000mi. And they drive and look great. What exactly are people looking for, Formula 1 type cornering. Auwe!

I won't get into all that again.
I wish I could lend you my Leaf for the day.
Pretty sure you would get it in the first 5 minutes.
Night and Day..
I'm glad your Ecopia experience has been good.

 

[hjaime]

After 30,000 miles on my original Ecopias and two alignments in 6 months, the edges on all four were worn and decided to replace with the just released Michelin Premier A/S tires at Costco. They were $100 more for the set with the $70 instant discount and well worth it.

Have noticed minimal (less than 5%) or no loss in mileage with my normal weekly work commute. Will continue to monitor and report any changes. These tires replaced the Michelin Primacy model; they provide great handling as expected, and mileage is great! Seems to do as good or better on level or downhill grades, and slightly worse on inclines based on my observations commuting to and from work.

The main difference in my commute this week was that it was 20 degrees warmer (98 degrees) than normal, not sure if that makes any difference on the rubber and resistance.

 

[kieranmullen]

So it is not just me then? When I corner hard at 10 mph and the tires at max pressure I get slurping noises?

 

[TomT]

+1!

I won't get into all that again.
I wish I could lend you my Leaf for the day.
Pretty sure you would get it in the first 5 minutes.
Night and Day..
I'm glad your Ecopia experience has been good.

 

[Nubo]

So it is not just me then? When I corner hard at 10 mph and the tires at max pressure I get slurping noises?

Not sure what that is.

For mine, there is a spot in our parking garage that lets me know when the pressure is getting low. In one of the turns there is VERY smooth concrete and the tires will squeal in the tight turn. Raise the pressure and it goes away. It's been my opinion based on handling and wear patterns, that some of the complaints about Ecopias are result of Nissan specifying a too-low pressure for the combination of vehicle weight and the properties of the tire.

This "squeal test" also supports that view. I had the same squeal issue with my previous car when pressure fell just below the recommended PSI. When raised to the recommended pressure, it went away. I kept them about 2PSI over. This also corresponded to best handling, imo. So for that car/tire the Mfr recommendation was pretty close. On the LEAF/Ecopia combo, the squeal doesn't go away until about 42 PSI. I keep them at 44. And interestingly I find this is the range for best handling for this combo. My wife's car serves as a 3rd data point and it appears the parking garage is well calibrated such that BestHandlingPSI = SquealPointPSI + 2

 

[lemketron]

It's been almost three weeks since I've replaced the stock Ecopia with the Michelin Energy Saver now and I've finally been able to compare my mileage to what it used to be. Just after the switch, cold weather came in and my mileage took a nose dive. Tonight it was the same temperature (mid 50s), no wind, fluid traffic and I was able to drive the same flat stretch of freeway exactly the same way I did just before ditching the Ecopia (60mph on cruise control, climate off).

The verdict: The brand new Michelin get me the same mileage as the worn out Ecopia. I might even say the Michelin might be a bit less than 0.1 better (4.2 vs 4.3 for the Michelin).

To be precise I got the summer version, not the A/S version of the Energy Saver. I also got the specific model made for Mercedes which is almost 2 pounds lighter than the VW version per tire (Michelin part #: 08947). Interestingly the summer Energy Saver is a more expensive tire than the A/S but I figured a tire designed for snow and mud and not just rain and dry has to have some compromises somewhere. My LEAF will never see a flake a snow so I'm fine with a summer tire all year long. Needless to say that handling is much improved and road noise seem to have decreased too. Now that I've been able to check that my mileage is the same as before I totally recommend the Energy Saver.

I'm planning to return the Michelin Premiers that I got a few weeks ago from America's Tire in Mountain View as (not being LRR tires) have had a huge impact on the efficiency of my LEAF. I've asked America's Tire to order a set of the Energy Savers you mentioned above (#08947).

I found a chart of the various Energy Saver specs and part numbers on the Michelin web site but how do you tell whether a given tire is summer or all season? That page says "summer" but then I'm curious how they distinguish the all season version... Also, on that page there are six different "205/55R16 91" Energy Saver tires, three of which are "H" rated with nearly identical specs. How do you tell the difference between them? Did you just pick the lightest one (at 17 pounds)?

Thanks so much for posting the part number... Based on your recommendation, I'm going to give them a try!

 

[TomT]

Summer tires — often called high-performance tires — are better for, not surprisingly, performance driving, but they’re going to wear out faster than all-season tires — and they typically cost more. Summer tires are made from a softer rubber that does a better job of gripping the road, which improves handling, braking and acceleration. These “sticky” tires can improve the performance of any car. Because of their tread pattern, they also handle wet roads quite well.

All-season tires are designed to handle any type of weather; unlike summer tires, they aren't as likely to leave you spinning in the snow (but they are no replacement for true snow tires). Even if you don’t have to deal with snow, all-season tires will last longer and give you the security of knowing you can handle the bad weather during road trips. They also retain traction better than summer tires on slick roads or over dirt or sand-covered patches. With the exception of high-performance cars, most new cars come from the factory with all-season tires.

 

[lemketron]

Summer tires — often called high-performance tires — are better for, not surprisingly, performance driving, but they’re going to wear out faster than all-season tires — and they typically cost more. Summer tires are made from a softer rubber that does a better job of gripping the road, which improves handling, braking and acceleration. These “sticky” tires can improve the performance of any car. Because of their tread pattern, they also handle wet roads quite well.

All-season tires are designed to handle any type of weather; unlike summer tires, they aren't as likely to leave you spinning in the snow (but they are no replacement for true snow tires). Even if you don’t have to deal with snow, all-season tires will last longer and give you the security of knowing you can handle the bad weather during road trips. They also retain traction better than summer tires on slick roads or over dirt or sand-covered patches. With the exception of high-performance cars, most new cars come from the factory with all-season tires.

That all makes sense... but which version of the Energy Saver (all season or summer version) would be best for maximizing efficiency and range, in an area like the Bay Area where (as EricSF previously noted) the car will never see snow, and will rarely see rain?

 

[TomT]

I would expect all season to have a lower rolling resistance due to harder rubber... But there are so many other possible variables it is almost impossible to say... I'd look and see if tire rack did any rolling resistance tests for the particular tires you are interested in...

That all makes sense... but which version of the Energy Saver (all season or summer version) would be best for maximizing efficiency and range, in an area like the Bay Area where (as EricSF previously noted) the car will never see snow, and will rarely see rain?

 

[lemketron]

I would expect all season to have a lower rolling resistance due to harder rubber... But there are so many other possible variables it is almost impossible to say... I'd look and see if tire rack did any rolling resistance tests for the particular tires you are interested in...

Oddly enough, I can't find any Energy Savers in "205/55R16" at TireRack. So the only information I've been able to find on them is from Michelin's own web site. Walmart.com also sells them, and America's Tire said they could get them, but they only list one variant on their web site and it's not the #08947 variant so they had to special order those for me.

 

[JPWhite]

I would expect all season to have a lower rolling resistance due to harder rubber... But there are so many other possible variables it is almost impossible to say... I'd look and see if tire rack did any rolling resistance tests for the particular tires you are interested in...

Oddly enough, I can't find any Energy Savers in "205/55R16" at TireRack. So the only information I've been able to find on them is from Michelin's own web site. Walmart.com also sells them, and America's Tire said they could get them, but they only list one variant on their web site and it's not the #08947 variant so they had to special order those for me.

There are many variables, but it does seem the lighter the tire, the better it is for fuel economy. The ecopias are very lightweight compared to others.

 

[lemketron]

I would expect all season to have a lower rolling resistance due to harder rubber... But there are so many other possible variables it is almost impossible to say... I'd look and see if tire rack did any rolling resistance tests for the particular tires you are interested in...

Oddly enough, I can't find any Energy Savers in "205/55R16" at TireRack. So the only information I've been able to find on them is from Michelin's own web site. Walmart.com also sells them, and America's Tire said they could get them, but they only list one variant on their web site and it's not the #08947 variant so they had to special order those for me.

There are many variables, but it does seem the lighter the tire, the better it is for fuel economy. The ecopias are very lightweight compared to others.

I'm looking forward to trying the 17 pound #08947 Energy Savers, then, since they're two pounds lighter than the Bridgestone Ecopias and at least two or three pounds lighter than most of the other Michelins listed for the LEAF.

According to the Michelin web site, the all-season variant of the Energy Saver is not available in 205/55R16, so that mystery is now also solved.

 

[TomT]

When you don't have to concern yourself with performance, strength, durability or wear, it is very easy to make a light tire! :lol:

There are many variables, but it does seem the lighter the tire, the better it is for fuel economy. The ecopias are very lightweight compared to others.

 

[JPWhite]

I saw a BMW i3 the other day at Nissan HQ.

It has Ecopia Tires!! Apparently BMW don't think they suck.

I have had much better luck with my second set of Ecopias now that I am running then at just over 40psi. Makes a big difference to wear near the tire edge. I'm almost at the same mileage on this set and don't feel the urge to replace them as I did with the last set at this mileage.