Failed to charge - interesting human error

[kuyper]

I had an interestingly similar event last night. I use the LEAF charge timer (80% Mo-Sa, 100% Su always at 23:00) - this morning I saw an email saying that charging had stopped at 23:00 (ie, right as it started) and I only had 4/12 bars charged (same as I parked)

I know that the Blink detected the connection last night; the charger relays turn on briefly and then disengage when the LEAF refuses the charge. I've filed a report with ECOtality to see if they can debug more from the logs. I am currently running firmware L2R.1.6A.

I will test the pull-out method tonight to see how it fares

 

[davewill]

Sounds like you are setting only a start time on your timer. It's much safer to specify a start AND an end time. With only a start time, the car will only start charging if it is already plugged in at the start time. Any interruptions, like the Blink malfing or a power outage, will end the charge and the car will not continue charging later. With an end time, the car will charge any time it is plugged in during the window. It will also restart when the Blink acts up.

 

[Jim66]

And you don't have to set a start time. I just use an "end" time; the Leaf figures out when to start, based on my requested time to be ready. So far it has completed charging about an hour earlier than my requested time. (I've moved out the end time to maximize charge time at the lowest rates.)

 

[JohnP]

For folks with programmable EVSEs (Blink), would you be better off using the EVSE timer features instead of the Leaf's?

I use the LEAF timer to charge to the 80% level and have had no issues in the first month of operation.

 

[TEG]

Leaf timer set for 80% with a start/stop time (late at night only).
Blink left at defaults with no timers set.
Always finding the car at 80% in the morning when I need it.
No fails to charge since I got it (over a month.)

I do hear the relay click off and on in the Blink sometimes.
In some cases I think it is firmware updates causing it to reboot, but then it resumes charging when done.

Conventional wisdom with remote software updates (such as in a TiVo) is to reboot in the wee hours (e.g.: 3AM) when no one is likely to be using the device, but with EVSEs people tend to charge at night, so perhaps firmware updates should be spooled in the middle of the day for them?

 

[Lannierose]

Just for the record, mine failed to charge on timer my second night. :x I assume it was an improperly seated connection. I'll be sure to push-pull-push from now on.

 

[davewill]

I do hear the relay click off and on in the Blink sometimes.
In some cases I think it is firmware updates causing it to reboot, but then it resumes charging when done.

Conventional wisdom with remote software updates (such as in a TiVo) is to reboot in the wee hours (e.g.: 3AM) when no one is likely to be using the device, but with EVSEs people tend to charge at night, so perhaps firmware updates should be spooled in the middle of the day for them?

Actually the unit should NEVER reboot during a charge cycle. If the car was charging because the timer override button was pressed or because a timer with only a start time was set, the charge would not restart. Anything that could cause a car to stop charging (or not to start properly) should be considered a mortal sin by the programmers of the Blink.

 

[Rat]

After 7 weeks of using Level 1 charging with no problems, last night my Leaf failed to charge. It was definitely plugged in, as I had to unplug it in the morning when I started to go drive. Then I saw the range meter at 13 miles and one bar, just as it had been yesterday when I got home. When I realized it hadn't charged at all I tried to remember whether I had just unplugged the EVSE from the wall as I usually do and whether I heard the relays and saw the blue lights last night when I plugged in, but I just can't be sure. It's possible I plugged in the car end but not the wall end of the EVSE, I suppose, but the routine is now such habit that I doubt that. I think I would have noticed if the usual lights had not come on, too. So I don't have a good explanation. The only thing that was different yesterday was that I used the stop timer function for only the second time since I've had the Leaf. I had a longer than usual trip planned for the day so after the 80% charge stopped at 7:00am (the end of the off-peak TOU rate) I went out, hit the stop timer button and started charging again to get it up to 93%, which worked fine. But when I got home, it should have returned to normal timer mode shouldn't it? It's set to start at 12:00am, which is the next day anyway, so the stop timer from earlier in the day should no longer affect it, if I understand correctly. I ran my errand today, which was short, and plugged in again this morning to top it off, but I'm going to go out before 2 pm (peak TOU rate start time) and unplug it. I probably won't drive again today so I can wait for the cheap juice. Without a clear explanation, though, this worries me. I suppose I could start charging before I go to bed at night and verify it's charging through Carwings but I don't stay up til midnight and the TOU rates are significantly different at peak and off-peak times. (Peak rate is approximately 10x off-peak, partial peak is about 5x). That's also more process than I should have to go through. Is there any way to find out through Carwings or otherwise whether it was recognized by the car as plugged in last night? My Blink unit hasn't been installed yet so there are no EVSE records.

 

[Uccello]

My wife often does a top up charge in the middle of the day by using the "timer off" button. Later, when the car is returned to the garage, she plugs it in as normal and it does its overnight charge without any problems.

On an interesting side note after doing a middle of the charge today, I came home to a car that was stopping its charge every 13.5 minutes. I think it was the "gotta plug the handle in all the way" error. Just lucky I caught it before she used to tomorrow.

-j

 

[LEAFfan]

I thinking of turning off the LEAF timer and using the Blink EVSE (once I get it). That way you don't have to remember to hit the override when using a public charger.

You still believe this? I never use the 'timer off/override' when using a public charger. It always charges to 80%.

 

[planet4ever]

I thinking of turning off the LEAF timer and using the Blink EVSE (once I get it). That way you don't have to remember to hit the override when using a public charger.

You still believe this? I never use the 'timer off/override' when using a public charger. It always charges to 80%.

That's because you don't use a timer. You have converted the timer into a charge limiting device. ENIAC (I assume) and I have timers, because we have to pay through the nose for electricity in the middle of the day.

I'm not positive, but I believe I got caught by this yesterday. I needed a bit of a boost to get home, so I stopped at a Nissan dealer, plugged in, and verified that the car was charging. I figured 45 minutes would cover what I needed, so I went into the service waiting room. There was a new LEAF right beside mine, and in fact directly in front of the EVSE I was using. The specialist was going over it with the new owner. I think what happened is that the specialist temporarily disconnected my car so the new owner could get a hands-on test of the J1772 connector. But unplugging my LEAF would have reactivated it's timer, and it wouldn't restart charging until after midnight. All I can say for sure is that I didn't get the charge I needed.

How's that for an interesting human error? The specialist didn't know I had a timer and, assuming I'm right, probably didn't even think of the possibility. So he plugged me back in, and figured his duty to me was done. Obviously he should have checked the charging light on the AV unit or the pattern of the flashing charging lights on my dash, but I doubt if he has ever had to worry about timers the way many of us have.

Ray

 

[Ingineer]

It would have been nice if they used a "Geo fence" to enable the timers. So for instance you could set 1 or 2 locations where your timers would be enabled, but everywhere else, (assuming a public charger) would just charge. Since the car has a GPS receiver this is not a difficult feature to implement.

Another solution if they didn't want to tie in GPS, would be to keep timers disabled once the button is pressed until the car is driven or at least turned on. That way a power failure, or curious person unplugging/reconnecting your car won't leave you not charging.

I'm just constantly amazed at how poor the user-interface and general functioning of all the instrumentation/telematics is on the LEAF.

Nissan Engineering, ARE YOU READING THIS? =)

-Phil

 

[kevin672]

It would have been nice if they used a "Geo fence" to enable the timers. So for instance you could set 1 or 2 locations where your timers would be enabled, but everywhere else, (assuming a public charger) would just charge. Since the car has a GPS receiver this is not a difficult feature to implement.

Another solution if they didn't want to tie in GPS, would be to keep timers disabled once the button is pressed until the car is driven or at least turned on. That way a power failure, or curious person unplugging/reconnecting your car won't leave you not charging.

I'm just constantly amazed at how poor the user-interface and general functioning of all the instrumentation/telematics is on the LEAF.

Nissan Engineering, ARE YOU READING THIS? =)

-Phil

+1

There's lots I like about the car but with 10 minutes of someone's time with user interface experience they'd of gained a lot of valuable feedback. It's almost like the UI team didn't even know what a car is. Did they not do any use case testing? Why is it all the soft buttons are stacked on top of each other when there's room to spread them out? I've hung up on more than one call trying to put it on or off mute.

 

[desileaf]

I had exactly same problem today, after ~2 months of charging Leaf without issues with Blink (110 V for first couple of weeks). Tried to put charger in & out of the car many times on both 220 and 110 v chargers - the car would think its plugged in (charging symbol shown in dashboard) but not the EVSE and blue lights do not turn on.

After many tries, I went back and wiggled the handle, and that did the trick. Plan to take it to dealer anyway to get this checked.

Last night our LEAF failed to charge, even though it was plugged in or at least the LEAF thought it was. We have a Clipper Creek EVSE. The LEAF is set to begin charging at 12:00am and stop at 80% or 5:00am. This morning I was looking at the vehicle status from the owners web page and noticed it said 50% state of charge and it also showed the LEAF was plugged in. So I knew it hadn't actually charged because it was at 50% last night. I checked the J1772 handle and noticed it was connected but wasn't positively locked in. After dozens of attempts, I was able to recreate what had happened. There is a point on the connector where the car thinks it's plugged in but the EVSE doesn't. However, if the handle is firmly locked (you can't pull it out without pushing the release) then the EVSE also always believes it's plugged in.

 

[Ingineer]

I had exactly same problem today, after ~2 months of charging Leaf without issues with Blink (110 V for first couple of weeks). Tried to put charger in & out of the car many times on both 220 and 110 v chargers - the car would think its plugged in (charging symbol shown in dashboard) but not the EVSE and blue lights do not turn on.

After many tries, I went back and wiggled the handle, and that did the trick. Plan to take it to dealer anyway to get this checked.

I'd love to find something like this that's repeatable. If anyone can create a situation that results in a repeatable no-charge when one should be happening, let us know!

Also, Desileaf; Let us know what your dealer says. I suspect it will all checkout fine with them, even if there is an actual problem. I'f learned dealer service departments are almost useless on intermittent problems unless you can reproduce it on the spot for them.

-Phil

 

[GoSolar]

For the second time in 2 weeks when I plugged in the Blink, no charging took place. I don't use any timer or schedule as electricity costs the same here 24/7. Normally as soon as I plug it in the blue dash lights come on. In these cases, no lights come on at all even though there is a quiet clicking noise when plugged in. The Blink unit says "Ready to charge" or something similar (maybe "Plug in to charge"). Well, it IS plugged in.

I unplug and replug the handset in and nothing still happens. The only way I can get it to work is to flip the breaker off/on in the service panel. When it reboots, charging begins.

Any suggestions?

 

[keydiver]

Sounds like this to me:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6513" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I just got burned by this problem. My wife drove the car yesterday and plugged it in when she got home. Not that I don't trust her with mechanical or technology things mind you, but I remembered seeing this thread so just to be sure I gave the nozzle a little extra nudge to make sure it was pushed in all the way. It was, and the icon on the cell phone app indicated the car was plugged in.

Anyway, no charge complete text message this morning. Update the status on the app and sure enough no charging happened. It's a Schneider evse, and I did notice last night that the indicator light in the ring at the 1 o'clock position was not lit up, but couldn't remember for sure whether it does or not, I think it does when the evse energizes... so I think the problem is the car thought it was plugged in, but the evse didn't energize.

Of course this happens the morning I'm supposed to go to the local area meeting of EV enthusiasts. Fortunately for me it isn't far today, but these little failure to charge incidents could be pretty nasty for folks relying on the car to get to work.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

How's that for an interesting human error? The specialist didn't know I had a timer and, assuming I'm right, probably didn't even think of the possibility. So he plugged me back in, and figured his duty to me was done. Obviously he should have checked the charging light on the AV unit or the pattern of the flashing charging lights on my dash, but I doubt if he has ever had to worry about timers the way many of us have.

Ray

wow Ray, sorry to hear that! after a year, it sounds like most Nissan Employees are still clueless as to what a Leaf is. any owner could tell you whether its charging due to the charging lights. that is why i like my cellphone app that notifies me of a "stop charging" incident so at least i can wander out and see what happened right away.

FYI; your area is not alone in cluelessness.

i cant schedule a Sat appointment to get my Leaf checked out because the dealership only has ONE certified Leaf mechanic. best i can say is i hope he does not find another job!!

 

[baronvonshush]

I checked the J1772 handle and noticed it was connected but wasn't positively locked in. After dozens of attempts, I was able to recreate what had happened. There is a point on the connector where the car thinks it's plugged in but the EVSE doesn't. However, if the handle is firmly locked (you can't pull it out without pushing the release) then the EVSE also always believes it's plugged in.

Interesting. I may have experienced this last night, but not 100% sure.

I pulled up to the charging station (Nissan of Downtown LA) with 6 miles on the GOM. Plugged in, pushed the timer override button, checked that the light on the dash was blinking as expected, and then hurried off to my destination as I was running late. I would be gone for almost 3 hours, which would give me plenty of charge to get back home after the event.

When I returned and started the car, it showed 6 miles on the GOM. :shock: It appears that no charging had occurred. So my friend (who drove separately) and I decided to have dinner in the area while I re-plugged in to get enough charge to get me home. This time I double and triple checked that it was really charging before heading off to find a restaurant. It did charge without incident, so I was able to get home after dinner.

I tried to reproduce the condition described above with my Panasonic EVSE, but couldn't quite do it - the car wouldn't recognize that it was plugged in until the handle clicked in, at which point both car and EVSE recognized the connection. However, I could then pull it back out just slightly, and then get the described condition where the car looks like it's plugged in but the EVSE doesn't see it. In this condition, when I press the timer override button, the green icon behind the steering wheel stays on solid, as does the middle blue dash light. I could swear I saw both blinking before leaving last night, but I concede I may have been checking too quickly since I was in a hurry and could have missed that they were solid.

I see two lessons learned here:

1. Take a few extra seconds to make sure the plug is secure and all charging indicators are blinking with the expected pattern.

2. While away from the car, use the smart phone app to check status, and if possible restart charging if it's not doing so. I actually thought about this multiple times while away, but kept thinking "no, it's charging, no need to check." Oops! Those without smart phones can always use Autoflugel to do this via text message.