First Full Range Test of Nissan LEAF Yields 116.1 Mile

[Coffee_Slurry]

Forgetting the last 15 miles which were in a crippled mode, maybe 60-75 mile AER with freeway speeds (75 MPH) and 85-100 mile AER in City/Rural/Suburban driving when the battery is new?

Nope. Read the article. Sounds like ~50mph most of the time, and 45mph at the end. Hardly what I'd call "real-world" for a 100mi drive. But interesting.

He seems to have killed the idea that the battery holds more than 24 kWh.

How do you figure?

If the leaf had a 50kWh battery, and only let you use 24kWh of it, how would you know? It would look the same.

One way to learn more about the true behavior of the battery is to study the charge curve via the DC port.

 

[Jay]

Seems like a missed opportunity to truly drive like a normal person.

It is very hard to say what is'normal' is. You never know what types of roads people will travel on, and where their location is...but I think most people can agree that 5-10mph over whatever the posted limited is the acepted norm.

As for acceleration, I am not so much curious to know the exact 0-60-we know it will be more than fine up to at least 50mph, but the 60-80 mph time slip would be a really nice metric to have.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

A freeway test-drive will tell all.

Really, can I reasonably expect to pass the slow-poke doing 60 in a 65.

 

[evnow]

He seems to have killed the idea that the battery holds more than 24 kWh.

If anything he proved that it is more than 24kwh. When people thought it was 24kwh, we were estimating usable to be about 20kwh.

 

[tps]

He seems to have killed the idea that the battery holds more than 24 kWh.

If anything he proved that it is more than 24kwh. When people thought it was 24kwh, we were estimating usable to be about 20kwh.

This has been discussed before:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=321&p=12708&hilit=battery+confidential#p12708

 

[palmermd]

If anything he proved that it is more than 24kwh. When people thought it was 24kwh, we were estimating usable to be about 20kwh.

This has been discussed before:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=321&p=12708&hilit=battery+confidential#p12708

Don't mind him, he is new. haha.

 

[evnow]

Don't mind him, he is new. haha.

He isn't new. He is just a Volt fan (may be some GM connection?) and protrays Leaf in as bad a light as possible.

 

[SanDust]

How do you figure?

If the leaf had a 50kWh battery, and only let you use 24kWh of it, how would you know? It would look the same.

I guess it would look the same but for the fact you're getting warning messages about running out of juice and telling you to find a charging station ASAP. So here is what he says:

If you do the back calculations, that means the LEAF let me use about 22.76 kW of its total 24 kWh battery, a utilization rate of about 94.9 percent. In the past, Nissan has told me that they allow 95% utilization, so I really did push the car to its limits.

He says Nissan told him the car would utilize 95% of the battery and he used 22.76 kWh. 95% of 24 is 22.8. If the Leaf's battery pack was 30 kWh then, at a 95% utilization rate, you'd be talking about 28.5 kWh. I'm unsure of what you're saying. Are you saying Nissan has mislead him? That he made the 95% number up? Are you saying the Leaf will leave you dead on the road when it has 6 kWh of battery left?

The numbers seem pretty clear.

 

[Nubo]

Doesn't 200 WH per mile seem low, especially with the AC running?

 

[evnow]

The numbers seem pretty clear.

24 kwh is the official Nissan line. That is what they talk about. If you want to discuss this further use the other linked thread.

 

[smkettner]

This is like arguing if a cup or quart or gallon is actually swishing around in the tank after you run out of fuel. :roll:
Nissan says it will go 100 miles and maybe a little more is driven nicely.
The writer just proved out the range to be as advertised. Nothing more.

 

[evnow]

I do love the Volt. Great piece of engineering. But just because I admire the engineering doesn't mean I have a need to fantasize that it has a 30 kWh battery pack.

I already told you to use the other thread. What part of this message did you not understand ?

If you want to discuss this further use the other linked thread.

I'm deleting your post.

 

[LEAFfan]

How do you figure?

If the leaf had a 50kWh battery, and only let you use 24kWh of it, how would you know? It would look the same.

I guess it would look the same but for the fact you're getting warning messages about running out of juice and telling you to find a charging station ASAP. So here is what he says:

If you do the back calculations, that means the LEAF let me use about 22.76 kW of its total 24 kWh battery, a utilization rate of about 94.9 percent. In the past, Nissan has told me that they allow 95% utilization, so I really did push the car to its limits.

He says Nissan told him the car would utilize 95% of the battery and he used 22.76 kWh. 95% of 24 is 22.8. If the Leaf's battery pack was 30 kWh then, at a 95% utilization rate, you'd be talking about 28.5 kWh. I'm unsure of what you're saying. Are you saying Nissan has mislead him? That he made the 95% number up? Are you saying the Leaf will leave you dead on the road when it has 6 kWh of battery left?

The numbers seem pretty clear.

Sandust, you're either an idiot or pretending to be one! Your lack of intelligence shows with your every post. You've been told many times that the USABLE capacity is 24Kwh (the other 6Kwh is UNUSABLE), therefore there is no mistake. Take your stupid FUD somewhere else. Your tactics aren't going to work fizzbrain.

 

[smkettner]

Maybe it is 95% until it hits limp mode..... which the author apparently did not hit.
After all he did not continue until the leaf stopped. So the remaing 5% was remaining of the usable capacity

 

[tps]

If you do the back calculations, that means the LEAF let me use about 22.76 kW of its total 24 kWh battery, a utilization rate of about 94.9 percent. In the past, Nissan has told me that they allow 95% utilization, so I really did push the car to its limits.

Per Nissan: 24 KWh USABLE capacity, total capacity confidental. (Many here place it in the 30 KWh range.) About the 95% figure, I would suppose that's what you get before the car goes into serious "limp" / energy conservation mode, but the LEAF likely lets you still get that last 5% of the 24 KWh before it coasts to a stop with a couple UNUSABLE KWh remaining.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

great article on driving. now without details we can imply from his article

1)rolling hills could mean a lot of regen helping to boost his mileage.

2) going slower than normal will boost the range a good 20% (just because its electric does not mean the amount of power required changes. its all physics. drive 65 mph in a Prius, average 48-50 mph. drive 50 mph, average 60 mpg.)

3) having AC on is key, but lets face it. its October. how hot was it really?

4) implications that this proves that the pack is only 24kwh. very interested in anyone's thought process on this. i reread the article after reading that post here. nothing implied that at all. Nissan said that 95% of the battery was usable so IF it were 24 kwh, then then 94.9% was used, but never hit turtle mode which means they battery pack is most likely bigger. turtle mode should start at what?? 10%. if that is the case, then the battery pack would be at least hmm (used about 22.8 kwh. if almost to 10% left that would make it a 25-27 kwh pack. seems to me most have already figured it to be around that anyway)

5)HEY!!, one single article has already provided as much as all the info on range , the Volt has provided. now the Volt was a bit of an expected letdown. this article is just the opposite and reaffirms Nissan's contention that "in most scenarios" the average driver will get around 100 miles on a charge which means that i can get 120 simply because i care enough to want to get that much.

 

[DaveEV]

1)rolling hills could mean a lot of regen helping to boost his mileage.

Hills nearly always mean you lose efficiency. If it's steep enough to need regen down the other side, you always lose some efficiency due to charging losses. And since it takes more power to go up hill and electronics are less efficient at higher loads, you lose efficiency there, too.

 

[EVDRIVER]

great article on driving. now without details we can imply from his article

1)rolling hills could mean a lot of regen helping to boost his mileage.

2) going slower than normal will boost the range a good 20% (just because its electric does not mean the amount of power required changes. its all physics. drive 65 mph in a Prius, average 48-50 mph. drive 50 mph, average 60 mpg.)


1)Speaking of physics, you may want to brush up because this is 100% the opposite.

2) Yes, but not always. If you drive slow for long distances and use climate control you will use much more power. There are exceptions.

 

[DeaneG]

.. If you drive slow for long distances and use climate control you will use much more power. There are exceptions.

Just for fun I made a spreadsheet to estimate range loss vs. vehicle mph for a given climate control energy load. I estimated vehicle energy consumption as a fixed component of about 0.3kW for basic operation, plus 0.07kW per mph linear drag (frictional losses), plus 0.0035 kW per mph squared (wind drag). The first constant is a WAG, but the second two give a range vs speed graph that looks reasonable based on what we've heard.

Anyway, adding a climate control energy load of 1kW reduces range in my model by about 20mi at 30mph, 7mi at 50mph, or 3mi at 70mph. Peak range (120mi) is found at about 20mph.

Adding a climate control energy load of 2kW reduces range in my model by about 64mi at 30mph, 13mi at 50mph, or 6mi at 70mph. Peak range (100mi) is found at about 25mph.

Of course, these are all guesses, but are probably reasonable.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Maybe someone on a Test Drive could try turning on the A/C and then the Heater and looking at the kW load change. I haven't seen numbers published for these.