Flat tire experience

[prberg]

Thanks for the feedback. I am a pretty attentive driver and while I do try to avoid potholes when I can, I just didn't see this one in time. Some of the roads here in LA have many many potholes. So it's a full time job to look for them (while also looking for everything else a good driver should look for). The road was the shortest distance to work, but I will be avoiding it in the future.

I was also concerned about not getting the same tire. It's funny, but also very sad that we can't trust the "Nissan" service technicians to know what is best for our car. I told them I was concerned about having the 2 different tires on the car (and especially in the front). They assured me that there would be no negative effects by putting that tire on my car, and in that position. I pushed them to put it in the back, but they really said the front would be the same as the back. I was even talking to a few of the dealership guys in that conversation. I should have known better. I needed the car for work on Monday so I could not wait the 5 days (if I had a spare tire I could have waited the 5 days). Maybe I will buy a spare tire for future flat tire issues.

I guess I will bring the car back in, and try to get them to put the matching tire on the car. If I match the psi on the tires and it still pulls, should I even ask the dealership to fix that? (assuming it's not the tire that is causing the pull?) I am pretty sure that would not be covered under warranty so I would paying the bill. An independent alignment shop would be a better choice than the dealership right?

thanks for the feedback. Very annoying experience on a car with only 1500 miles.

-Peter

 

[derkraut]

Having hit a pothole large enough to rip up a tire, your alignment is probably out of tolerance. But I doubt that an independent alignment shop would even have the alignment specifications for the Leaf yet. I would definitely take it to the dealer I purchased it from.

 

[TomT]

Well, I was trying to post the alignment specs from the service manual but I get a SQL error every time I submit it...

 

[jlaw99]

Thus, if it is out of spec it is likely due to a bent suspension component and will likely need parts replaced to bring it back in to spec.

Are replacement parts for the Leaf even available yet? What about if the Leaf is involved in some accident more serious? Will we be stuck for weeks waiting for parts to arrive? ....maybe I should hang on to my ICE instead of trading it in when the Leaf is purchased.... hmmmm....

 

[evnow]

Well, I was trying to post the alignment specs from the service manual but I get a SQL error every time I submit it...

Something in the specs (probably some quotes) is doing that. Just make an image of the spec and post it ...

 

[garygid]

Please keep us know what happens.

Did you mention the Dealer's name, so I will not accidently go there?

 

[TomT]

A couple of things to consider:

1) Different types of tires on the front can often cause pulling. I'd move the odd man out to the rear and see if the pulling subsides.

2) An impact hard enough to blow out a tire will often bend the wheel as well. I'd have a tire shop check the wheel for run-out and trueness. Vibration in the steering wheel is also often a sign that the wheel has been bent.

 

[aqn]

Is there some commonly available tire that is an "exact" replacement for the LEAF's tire?

The LEAF's tire size is 205/55-16. It's a very common size.

One should strive to keep rotating components on the same end of a car matched in pair (brake rotors, wheels, tires, bearings, driveshafts, etc.). This is especially true for components with larger diameters such as brake rotors, wheels and tires. Also, it's rare that one has the occasion to replace these items individually instead of in pairs. One of these occasions would be tire damage on an almost-brand new car, as in this case, because the undamaged tires would not have had enough wear on it to make it so different (e.g. in diameter) to a brand new replacement for the damaged tire, providing one is replacing the damaged tire with one of the exact same brand, model and size.

That said, there's no need for an "exact replacement" because as long as one replaces tires in pairs and replace them with same-size tires, it does not matter, as far rotational behavior is concerned, if the new tires' manufacturer or model is different than the old tires.

Is there a lightweight, commonly available compact rim and tire that could be mounted on the LEAF to drive (perhaps not high speed) to a dealer or tire shop?

A quick look at owner's manuals on nissanusa.com indicates that among 2011 Nissan cars/SUV, only the Rogue has one wheel option with the exact same wheel dimensions as the LEAF (diameter, width, offset, bolt configuration). Some other models (Quest, Altima) have 16" wheels but differs in widths and offsets.

Do tire shops carry the LEAF's OEM tire, or is it "strange" and unusual?

The LEAF's tire size is extremely common, judging by the number of tire choices in that size on tirerack.com. There is nothing in the owner's manual that says the LEAF's tires are special compound-wise, construction-wise, or tread configuration-wise.

 

[aqn]

Are LEAF-certified dealers required to stock the LEAF's tire?

Are replacement parts for the Leaf even available yet? What about if the Leaf is involved in some accident more serious? Will we be stuck for weeks waiting for parts to arrive?

I don't think there is a requirement that a Nissan dealer stock LEAF (or any Nissan model) parts. For example, just about every time I need a part for my 2006 VW, it has to be ordered, arriving in a day or two. I think a dealership is required to service a car of a certain model and vintage, but there is no requirement that they do so immediately, that is, they are not required to stock every possible part for every year of every model.

 

[aqn]

Unfortunately, the suspension on the Leaf has no field alignable points with the exception of front toe-in.

Well, I was trying to post the alignment specs from the service manual but I get a SQL error every time I submit it...

Shall I assume that you got this "no field alignable points with the exception of front toe-in" from "the service manual" of the LEAF? In any case, that does not sound right to me. Doesn't the LEAF has a strut and lower A arm front suspension, like the great majority of FWD cars? If so, such a suspension is adjustable in camber and toe, not just toe.

 

[aqn]

I suspect that if you hit a big enough pothole to blow out a tire, its quite possible that your alignment is off as well.

Thus, if it is out of spec it is likely due to a bent suspension component and will likely need parts replaced to bring it back in to spec.

I concur. A hit hard enough to split a near-brand new tire probably also bent the wheel and/or bent suspension pieces and/or knock the wheel's alignment out of whack. I would have the alignment looked at as well.

Thanks for the feedback. I am a pretty attentive driver and while I do try to avoid potholes when I can, I just didn't see this one in time. Some of the roads here in LA have many many potholes. So it's a full time job to look for them (while also looking for everything else a good driver should look for). The road was the shortest distance to work, but I will be avoiding it in the future.

I feel for you, man. **** happens.

I was also concerned about not getting the same tire. It's funny, but also very sad that we can't trust the "Nissan" service technicians to know what is best for our car. I told them I was concerned about having the 2 different tires on the car (and especially in the front). They assured me that there would be no negative effects by putting that tire on my car, and in that position. I pushed them to put it in the back, but they really said the front would be the same as the back. [...] I should have known better. I needed the car for work on Monday so I could not wait the 5 days (if I had a spare tire I could have waited the 5 days). Maybe I will buy a spare tire for future flat tire issues.

Which dealer was this? I wouldn't go back there. Putting a tire of the same size but different manufacturer and/or model on just one side is kinda iffy. Tires of the same size can vary in actual dimension from manufacturer to manufacturer and from model to model. Certainly, they vary a good deal in construction, in material, and therefore in weight. I would never put dissimlar tires on the same end of a car.

I guess I will bring the car back in, and try to get them to put the matching tire on the car. If I match the psi on the tires and it still pulls, should I even ask the dealership to fix that? (assuming it's not the tire that is causing the pull?) I am pretty sure that would not be covered under warranty so I would paying the bill. An independent alignment shop would be a better choice than the dealership right?

I think the only way your pulling problem is tire related is if one of the tires is of a different actual diameter than the other.

I would have the alignment checked out first. A Nissan dealer (not the one that fed you the line about "different tire is OK") is as good as an alignment shop, warranty-wise, as your misshap is probably not covered under the LEAF's warranty. A Nissan dealer would be a better bet since independent alignment shop may not have alignment information for Nissan LEAFs yet.

If the alignment checks out OK, then your pulling problem is 99% because of the new tire, then you can go back to the Nissan dealer who sold you the tire and make them take it back.

 

[garygid]

Or, make them give you a matching tire first, and put it on the rear, check and set all the tire pressures the same, and see if the pulling is still there. If so, get the alignment ... elsewhere.

 

[TomT]

Yes, the service manual says that only front toe can be set and that if any other parameter is out of tolerance, one should look for a worn or damaged part. I agree that you would expect that the lower wishbone would be adjustable, at least via shims, but such does not appear to be the case if one believes the service manual.

Unfortunately, the suspension on the Leaf has no field alignable points with the exception of front toe-in.

Well, I was trying to post the alignment specs from the service manual but I get a SQL error every time I submit it...

Shall I assume that you got this "no field alignable points with the exception of front toe-in" from "the service manual" of the LEAF? In any case, that does not sound right to me. Doesn't the LEAF has a strut and lower A arm front suspension, like the great majority of FWD cars? If so, such a suspension is adjustable in camber and toe, not just toe.

 

[DaveEV]

Yes, the service manual says that only front toe can be set and that if any other parameter is out of tolerance, one should look for a worn or damaged part. I agree that you would expect that the lower wishbone would be adjustable, at least via shims, but such does not appear to be the case if one believes the service manual.

I've never seen a strut based suspension without elliptical bolts in one of the strut mounts - typically the upper... Camber is a very common adjustment to make in the front of cars.

On the back you'll probably need shims to make any camber/toe adjustments (setup is just like the Prius) with a trailing/torsion axle beam setup.

 

[prberg]

Quick update. So last night I checked the tire pressure, and the new tire was about 5 psi lower than the other 3 tires. So I added the air last night, and today the car tracked much better. I did notice that the steering wheel is now slightly to the right when I am just driving straight down the road, but the pull to the right is pretty much gone. So there could still be some small issue with the alignment, but luckily it shouldn't be anything too major.

I wonder if the tire pressure might have been a factor in the blow-out? It was a big pothole, but I also am running my tires about 4 psi over the Nissan recommended pressure. I had all my tires at 39-40psi. I figure this might reduce the tire drag, but I guess it might make blow-outs more likely? I wonder if I should bring the pressure back down to 36 psi to reduce the chance of tire blow-outs? Is any efficiency gains not really measurable?

-Peter

 

[TomT]

The drawing in the service manual clearly shows that there are no elliptical bolts. Note I said drawing and not picture, and thus it could be wrong, but they are very clear on the point that no adjustments beyond toe-in are provided for.

I've never seen a strut based suspension without elliptical bolts in one of the strut mounts - typically the upper... Camber is a very common adjustment to make in the front of cars.

On the back you'll probably need shims to make any camber/toe adjustments (setup is just like the Prius) with a trailing/torsion axle beam setup.

 

[DaveEV]

I wonder if the tire pressure might have been a factor in the blow-out? It was a big pothole, but I also am running my tires about 4 psi over the Nissan recommended pressure. I had all my tires at 39-40psi. I figure this might reduce the tire drag, but I guess it might make blow-outs more likely? I wonder if I should bring the pressure back down to 36 psi to reduce the chance of tire blow-outs? Is any efficiency gains not really measurable?

40 psi is nothing and won't make blow outs more likely. Higher pressures will protect the wheel better in the event of hitting potholes big enough to blow out tires. It will improve efficiency a bit and should be measurable based on experience with other cars. Much over 40 psi and you've reached the point of diminishing returns in terms of efficiency, though.

If your steering wheel is no longer centered, you definitely bent/tweaked something and should have the alignment checked.

I will be checking for camber alignment bolts when I get my Leaf...

 

[aqn]

I've never seen a strut based suspension without elliptical bolts in one of the strut mounts - typically the upper... Camber is a very common adjustment to make in the front of cars.

On the back you'll probably need shims to make any camber/toe adjustments (setup is just like the Prius) with a trailing/torsion axle beam setup.

The drawing in the service manual clearly shows that there are no elliptical bolts. Note I said drawing and not picture, and thus it could be wrong, but they are very clear on the point that no adjustments beyond toe-in are provided for.

Bummer! But all might not be lost: there may be enough slop in the various bolt-to-hole interfaces to allow for a small range of adjustment. All the VWs that I have owned are like that, like the three red-arrowed bolt holes in these pics:


and the bolt holes at the bottom of the strut in this pic:

 

[DaveEV]

Bummer! But all might not be lost: there may be enough slop in the various bolt-to-hole interfaces to allow for a small range of adjustment. All the VWs that I have owned are like that, like the three red-arrowed bolt holes in these pics:

You mean all the VWs you've owned don't have adjustable camber? Anyway - it usually doesn't take long for the after market to step in with elliptical bolts. And if not - can always start tugging on things with pull-jacks.

 

[aqn]

Bummer! But all might not be lost: there may be enough slop in the various bolt-to-hole interfaces to allow for a small range of adjustment. All the VWs that I have owned are like that, like the three red-arrowed bolt holes in these pics:

You mean all the VWs you've owned don't have adjustable camber?

There's adjustable as in "intended to be adjustable" and adjustable as in "other factors render it adjustable". VWs' front suspension is of the latter type: there are no explicit provisions for adjustment, but loose tolerances in certain parts render it adjustable.