Freeway commute questions

[Chris52]

Hey everyone,

I have a couple questions and I apologize in advance if this was brought up already. I did look but didn't see what I'm looking for.

I have one way commute of 62 miles with 95% freeway in heavier traffic into SF. I would probably use the AC and lights on some days but it's the bay area with cooler temps year round. How would the range be with stop and go traffic in 50% of the commute?

Also my work has 110 plugs for charging. How long are you seeing a charge take on a 110?

I really want to buy a leaf but worried about having enough energy for my 124 mile round trip.

Thank you for your help

Chris

 

[GRA]

Hey everyone,

I have a couple questions and I apologize in advance if this was brought up already. I did look but didn't see what I'm looking for.

I have one way commute of 62 miles with 95% freeway in heavier traffic into SF. I would probably use the AC and lights on some days but it's the bay area with cooler temps year round. How would the range be with stop and go traffic in 50% of the commute?

Also my work has 110 plugs for charging. How long are you seeing a charge take on a 110?

I really want to buy a leaf but worried about having enough energy for my 124 mile round trip.

Thank you for your help

Chris

[Note, I don't have a Leaf] I'd say you're going to be pushing it once the battery ages, depending on how much reduced speed freeway and stop and go you have to do - as it is, you're going to be doing a pretty deep discharge twice a day, so aging will be speeded up. A Coda (or a Volt) may be your best bet, but there are Leaf owners here with similar Bay Area commutes to you who can give you the benefit of their experience.

 

[mwalsh]

I think that's going to be a bit tight without 240v charging. 120v charging only returns you 4 miles per hour charged and you'll get to work with only around 20 miles of realistic range remaining. And that's before any degradation on your battery pack.

Edit: Oh, and my guesstimate assumes a relatively flat commute too.

 

[adric22]

I'd say the whole situation is a no-go. Its just too far. On really cold days, using the heater, it may not even be possible to reach your destination at all. As the car ages and you have gradual capacity loss (which is guaranteed putting that kind of miles on the battery) then it is only a matter of time before the entire situation would be bad.

Second thing.. I only advocate people to use a Leaf if they can make it to work and back on a single charge. Being able to charge at work is a great perk and removes some range anxiety and allows for unplanned trips during or after work. However, if you absolutely NEED to recharge before leaving work, what happens if there is an emergency? What if you are sick? What if a family member had an accident or illness? You would be stuck at work for hours waiting on a charge.

Being that you can charge at work, I think a Chevy Volt might be a better solution. You can drive 35 to 40 miles of your trip in EV mode each direction. The Volt can recharge on 120V in about 10 hours. So if you are at work for 9 hours like most people, it would be nearly recharged by the time you leave.

 

[Chris52]

I guess I should have added that I work 10 and 12 hour shifts daily so the 110v could possibly give me 40 to 48 miles charging before I commute home. My freeway has some hills, especially over the Altamont pass.

 

[ebill3]

From your description of the commute, it sounds like you will not be traveling at freeway speeds for a good part of the trip. Good news, range wise. Stop and go is not a MPG (miles per kWh) eater, unless you are running the heater, but the heated seats might be enough in SFO. Low beam lights are miserly.

I think 4 miles per hour of 120 volt charging is a bit low - I figure about 6 per hour.

Can you rent a LEAF for a couple of days? Enterprise has them in selected locations, perhaps other rental outfits. Do a couple of trial runs.

It might be close, but given your traffic conditions, I think it is doable.

Bill

 

[planet4ever]

120v charging at work would be really pushing it, even with a 10 hour workday. I disagree with ebill3 on this; considering stop and go on 580 you should figure only 4 added miles for each hour of charging. Even 5 miles would imply that you could go more than 100 miles on a full charge. My suggestion would be to get the LEAF but drive it to Dublin and take BART into San Francisco. Of course I don't know what part of the city you are going to, but even some added time on Muni wouldn't be too bad. Don't forget that you can do a lot of computer stuff on BART that you could never do while driving. And you will be less tired when you get to your destination.

Ray

 

[nosuchthing]

You will have 10 freeway miles to spare when you arrive (no heater, AC ok). You need to charge up 55 miles to make it home comfortably, that's over 12 hours at 110 volts.

I was doing 42 miles commute with 4 hr charging (110). That was doable. I'd look into RAV EV. It has much bigger battery with the gain of some 30 freeway miles (supposedly). That could get you over the hump, paticularly if some of the freeway is slow go. You save a lot of juice there. I recon your 680 commute is a bitch. Although, you do get to hit the HOV lane which is nice.

Get a lowdown on RAV when it's out (soon).

 

[DeaneG]

As a one-year leaf owner, for your situation, I'd get a plug-in Prius since it's cheaper than the Volt and still gets you into the carpool lane.

Even though the Prius drives like %&$.

I gave up a daily-driver Maserati for the Leaf, and it sure is a pleasure clipping along in the HOV lane, blowing past the odd AMG S-class, Aston Martin, Cayenne Turbo, etc parked in the other two lanes.

 

[cwerdna]

(As someone who doesn't own a Leaf yet...)

I'd say the whole situation is a no-go. Its just too far. On really cold days, using the heater, it may not even be possible to reach your destination at all. As the car ages and you have gradual capacity loss (which is guaranteed putting that kind of miles on the battery) then it is only a matter of time before the entire situation would be bad.

Second thing.. I only advocate people to use a Leaf if they can make it to work and back on a single charge. Being able to charge at work is a great perk and removes some range anxiety and allows for unplanned trips during or after work. However, if you absolutely NEED to recharge before leaving work, what happens if there is an emergency? What if you are sick? What if a family member had an accident or illness? You would be stuck at work for hours waiting on a charge.

Being that you can charge at work, I think a Chevy Volt might be a better solution. You can drive 35 to 40 miles of your trip in EV mode each direction. The Volt can recharge on 120V in about 10 hours. So if you are at work for 9 hours like most people, it would be nearly recharged by the time you leave.

Agree completely w/all of the above.

I live in the Bay Area and the Leaf would be ruled out completely if I had such conditions that the OP mentions. The 110 volt charging is simply too slow at work.

Agree that if one wants the HOV stickers and some EV capability, a PiP or Volt is a better choice.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I wouldn't do it, unless I had a bona fide absolute 240v plug in at work (and a modified EVSE to plug into that 240v).

Certainly, this is possible. But, smart? I don't know. Again, to consider the LEAF, I would want some formal agreement with my employer that they will have a dedicated to you 240v power available at your designated parking spot. Offer to pay for the installation, and sell them on the green benefits.

Get that, and I would do it at 60-65mph with minimal heater (use the heated seat and steering wheel) and light AC in the summer. If you need an emergency charge to get home a few times, there will be quick chargers sparsely spread around the Bay area.

As your battery pack degrades over the years, you might find that you have to slow to an uncomfortable speed just to get there. Traffic will help you, unlike a gas burner. Anyway, the $299 lease that I just got for 39 months is a total cost of a bit over $430 monthly total cost. No oil changes, but your miles will be WAY over at the end.

Tough call. Somebody said Rav4, and that's probably a far better choice for the range. But, $50k for the car. I wouldn't choose a gas burner, but that's your choice.

 

[Caracalover]

Hey everyone,

I have one way commute of 62 miles with 95% freeway in heavier traffic into SF. I would probably use the AC and lights on some days but it's the bay area with cooler temps year round. How would the range be with stop and go traffic in 50% of the commute?

Also my work has 110 plugs for charging. How long are you seeing a charge take on a 110?

Chris

What is the net elevation gain or loss one way?

If it is more downhill on the way to work, the 110 charging will likely be enough, but keep in mind the lunch time runs won't be possible.

I drive 70 miles one way every Sunday with a 1000' elevation change from where I live to my destination. When the temperatures were in the teens, I would get there with the fisrt low battery warning, and I would use very little heat. Coming home was never an issue except when the road was closed due to snow and rain and sleet, but even that was not an issue since I was ok with the extra time it would take to remain driving oil free, and there was an L2 charger on the alternate route. This drive has 30 miles of 65 mph freeway, and a mountain (3000') before I get there.

The people that want an alternate to gasoline are always the ones with the longest commutes. Hope Nissan is listening. Doing it once a week is fine, but everyday it might get old, just due to the fact that you won't want to do 80 when traffic allows it, especially on the way to work.

Getting 240 to plug into is not all that complex, so see if there is an existing outlet (Dryers, welders, etc.) that you can use a modified EVSE - then it would be no problem at all. 4 or 5 hours and you will be at 100%, so if you go out to lunch, burn up enough juice to get under 80% before plugging back in.

I lived on 110 for a year before I moved to a solar powered house that has a 240 plug. Let me tell you the 240 charger is the way to go. Breaking 17000 miles and loving every one of them, especially now that they are free!

 

[Chris52]

Hey everyone,

I have one way commute of 62 miles with 95% freeway in heavier traffic into SF. I would probably use the AC and lights on some days but it's the bay area with cooler temps year round. How would the range be with stop and go traffic in 50% of the commute?

Also my work has 110 plugs for charging. How long are you seeing a charge take on a 110?

Chris

What is the net elevation gain or loss one way?

If it is more downhill on the way to work, the 110 charging will likely be enough, but keep in mind the lunch time runs won't be possible.

I drive 70 miles one way every Sunday with a 1000' elevation change from where I live to my destination. When the temperatures were in the teens, I would get there with the fisrt low battery warning, and I would use very little heat. Coming home was never an issue except when the road was closed due to snow and rain and sleet, but even that was not an issue since I was ok with the extra time it would take to remain driving oil free, and there was an L2 charger on the alternate route. This drive has 30 miles of 65 mph freeway, and a mountain (3000') before I get there.

The people that want an alternate to gasoline are always the ones with the longest commutes. Hope Nissan is listening. Doing it once a week is fine, but everyday it might get old, just due to the fact that you won't want to do 80 when traffic allows it, especially on the way to work.

Getting 240 to plug into is not all that complex, so see if there is an existing outlet (Dryers, welders, etc.) that you can use a modified EVSE - then it would be no problem at all. 4 or 5 hours and you will be at 100%, so if you go out to lunch, burn up enough juice to get under 80% before plugging back in.

I lived on 110 for a year before I moved to a solar powered house that has a 240 plug. Let me tell you the 240 charger is the way to go. Breaking 17000 miles and loving every one of them, especially now that they are free!

The elevation gain is roughly 1000' give or take. I would't drive that car at lunch or any other time during the day except for commute times. I might be able to convince my department to add a 240v charger, it is SF after all and they love green.

 

[cwerdna]

What is the net elevation gain or loss one way?

If the OP doesn't know already, Google Earth can be used to determine elevation change (http://priuschat.com/threads/google-earth-can-give-you-an-elevation-profile-of-a-route-between-2-points.100653/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. I learned of it first from MNL.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I might be able to convince my department to add a 240v charger, it is SF after all and they love green.

If you can get a dedicated EVSE, go for it. Lowes and Home Depot has these in stock, $800 to $1000, plus mounting and wiring.

Lowes:

GE Wattstation Universal Wall-Mounted Plug-In Electric Car Charger
Item #: 107343 | Model #: EVWSWBC-CP01
$999.00

Home Depot:

Schneider Electric EVlink Full 30A Level 2 Electric Vehicle Charging Station

Model # EV2430WS
Internet # 202963679
Store SKU # 315911
$799.99 /EA-Each

You don't need the whole EVSE; just an L6-20R or a 14-50 receptacle for your modified EVSE. Both of those two receptacles are $10-$20 in hardware, wiring, maybe a $2-$20 breaker, and labor. $100-$150 total with an easy install; obviously more otherwise, prohibitively moreso for some installs.

NEMA L6-20 is what will come on the modified EVSEupgrade.com "charger". This will only work on the 2011 and 2012 LEAF, and the 2013 with the standard 3.3kW charger.

NEMA 14-50 is used for 50 amp service at RV parks, and other 240 volt / 50 amp loads. This plug will also handle the 2013 LEAF with a 6.6kW charger, and the Ford Focus EV.

 

[Chris52]

120v charging at work would be really pushing it, even with a 10 hour workday. I disagree with ebill3 on this; considering stop and go on 580 you should figure only 4 added miles for each hour of charging. Even 5 miles would imply that you could go more than 100 miles on a full charge. My suggestion would be to get the LEAF but drive it to Dublin and take BART into San Francisco. Of course I don't know what part of the city you are going to, but even some added time on Muni wouldn't be too bad. Don't forget that you can do a lot of computer stuff on BART that you could never do while driving. And you will be less tired when you get to your destination.

Ray

Thank Ray,

BART and MUNI are not really an option since the trip would be 2 hours door to door without any 580 traffic. Add an additional 30-45 minutes with commute traffic. I was hoping to save $500 in gas plus use the HOV lanes to save time. I was hoping to make it work somehow.

 

[MichaelS]

I would go for it if there was 240 or 208 charging. I consistently get 96 MPC with mixed freeway and in town driving with occasional hot rodding. Eco mode does not increase your range.

The deeper discharging will reduce your battery life.

I've been driving an EV since the EV-1.

Michael

 

[planet4ever]

NEMA L6-20 is what will come on the modified EVSEupgrade.com "charger". This will only work on the 2011 and 2012 LEAF, and the 2013 with the standard 3.3kW charger.

Sorry, Tony, but I believe that statement is wrong. The Mod 2 EVSEupgrade will tell the car that it can pull no more than 16A. Even if the car has a 6.6kW charger it will work quite happily at 16A; it just won't charge any faster than a car with a 3.3kW charger.

Ray

 

[planet4ever]

BART and MUNI are not really an option since the trip would be 2 hours door to door without any 580 traffic. Add an additional 30-45 minutes with commute traffic. I was hoping to save $500 in gas plus use the HOV lanes to save time. I was hoping to make it work somehow.

Well, it obviously depends on how far you have to go on Muni, but Google tells me that BART from Dublin to San Francisco takes 45 minutes, and driving that same route takes 41 minutes in the middle of the night. So surely BART is faster than driving at commute times. Until, as I said, you add Muni times.

They're both electric, and I have to believe that BART uses electricity far more efficiently than the same number of commuters driving LEAFs.

Ray

 

[mkjayakumar]

$500 of gas per month? You gotto make this EV thing work out. Beg your employer to give you a 220v access somehow.

The guy who has crossed 50k miles I believe is doing a similar commute with L2 charging at both ends.