Full 2013 Nissan LEAF Specs out

[JPWhite]

I just got a response. Basically they said.. Nope. Not possible... not going to happen. Here is the quote:

"The updates you suggested will not be available for the older models of the LEAF because the 2011 and 2012 have completely different operating systems and were not built with the capacity of the 13's. They will simply not support the updates you are looking for.

It would appear the ability to flash an operating system upgrade was not designed in. Car makers have not made the transition to fully customizable software. Tesla are probably the only maker capable of this type of retrofitted features. I think Nissan have attracted a lot of tech savvy purchasers to the LEAF, me included, and I'm sure they are surprised by such requests. It may take several generations of vehicle before they design in this level of customization.

Tesla have now migrated to an over the air upgrade to their vehicle software, I believe this level of flexibility is what you and I would like to see. The only way to get it today is hand over lots of money for a Tesla.

 

[Robster1979]

Can someone give an estimated guess when the epa range will be available? I'm getting more curious by the day. Will it be more than 76 Miles (ford focus electric)...

 

[KJD]

Can someone give an estimated guess when the epa range will be available? I'm getting more curious by the day. Will it be more than 76 Miles (ford focus electric)...

The Fiat 500e is rated at 87 miles.
http://insideevs.com/fiat-500e-rated-at-87-miles-of-electric-range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would like to know how Nissan compares to the Fiat.

 

[Bicster]

Nissan execs have suggested the EPA range likely won't change. We'll know in a few weeks. As a practical matter, given weight reduction, mechanical simplification, and improved aerodynamics ... there should be a slight improvement in real world driving.

Nissan will be offering drives next week at the Houston Auto Show. I signed up, and I'm hoping it will be a 2013!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Nissan will be offering drives next week at the Houston Auto Show. I signed up, and I'm hoping it will be a 2013!

I would imagine that is probably not realistic, but who knows!

 

[Bicster]

Nissan will be offering drives next week at the Houston Auto Show. I signed up, and I'm hoping it will be a 2013!

I would imagine that is probably not realistic, but who knows!

I agree, but I'll take what I can get. They should at least have a 2013 on the show floor. I've yet to even test drive a Leaf or any other EV.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Nissan will be offering drives next week at the Houston Auto Show. I signed up, and I'm hoping it will be a 2013!

I would imagine that is probably not realistic, but who knows!

I agree, but I'll take what I can get. They should at least have a 2013 on the show floor. I've yet to even test drive a Leaf or any other EV.

Lease, don't buy, in your hot part of the world !!!!

 

[Bicster]

Lease, don't buy, in your hot part of the world !!!!

Naturally. Although when I look at avg high temps in my area, it's not nearly as bad as I expected. Houston is nowhere near Phoenix, and I'd almost never be parked in the sun.

 

[Stanton]

Lease, don't buy, in your hot part of the world !!!!

Naturally. Although when I look at avg high temps in my area, it's not nearly as bad as I expected. Houston is nowhere near Phoenix, and I'd almost never be parked in the sun.

It kills me to see posts like this. Just because one person drove their Leaf "into the ground", it impacts an unrelated EV purchase. Dallas is just as hot (if not hotter) than Houston, and I haven't experienced the type of battery degradation this type of fear references.

 

[Bicster]

Behold my threadjacking talent!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Lease, don't buy, in your hot part of the world !!!!

Naturally. Although when I look at avg high temps in my area, it's not nearly as bad as I expected. Houston is nowhere near Phoenix, and I'd almost never be parked in the sun.

It kills me to see posts like this. Just because one person drove their Leaf "into the ground", it impacts an unrelated EV purchase. Dallas is just as hot (if not hotter) than Houston, and I haven't experienced the type of battery degradation this type of fear references.

Perhaps they don't teach counting in your little corner of the world, but the last time I checked, there is more than "one" with reduced range autonomy from environments with extreme heat exposure.

Also, it's a miracle you know that this "one" you mention ran their car "into the ground". Amazing insight, or as we say in the counting world, thanks for sticking your head in the sand.

Perception determines “truth", and clearly your singular data point of not having degradation must apply to others. Of course, I seriously doubt you have "no degradation", unless you left your battery at 50% charge in a deep freeze... and even then, it will degrade over time, just a whole lot slower.

Anyway, my point for wasting all my spewage here is not to convince you; heck, you have your "truth".
Instead, it's for the benefit of those who aren't as lucky as you to have such a perfect car and battery.

Edit: just remembered the last time somebody told me "all is well" because their "truth" said so:

1. My dad, while pulling an oxygen bottle behind him, will happily tell you how 60 years of smoking a pack or two of non-filtered Pall Mall cigarettes hasn't affected his lungs one bit [hack, hack... ]

2. Boeing said all was well with the batteries on the 787, until the government physically shut them down.

3. Every helmet-less Harley rider will tell how safe they are because they've never personally died... All those other dead people are the exception!

4. Nissan built a battery with no cooling to be used in really hot areas.....

 

[planet4ever]

Back on subject...

Can someone give an estimated guess when the epa range will be available? I'm getting more curious by the day. Will it be more than 76 Miles (ford focus electric)...

I'm not usually a betting man, but I'd be willing to bet it will be no more than 75, probably less than that. What have they really done that could improve it, after all? A cheaper motor that they are quick to claim won't hurt the mileage? A few very minor aero tweaks? Thinner packaging on the same battery cells? Heavier tires?

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

"The updates you suggested will not be available for the older models of the LEAF because the 2011 and 2012 have completely different operating systems and were not built with the capacity of the 13's.

Very interesting! It sounds like they have given up on Windows Embedded Automotive, and switched to something else. I wonder what?

If that is true,

• All sorts of things are likely to behave differently on the 2013's. Maybe a number of our user interface complaints will go away.
• I would have to agree that there is no way that any of the enhancements would be ported to the the older cars.

However it is also possible that they switched operating systems for the central console (the AV Control Unit) but not for the dash (the Combination Meter). If so, they might be able to retrofit the State of Charge meter you asked for, but not any of the other things.

I find it unlikely that they've switched away from Windows Embedded Automotive for what you refer to as the central console. I poked around on the touchscreen LCD on the '13 Leaf on display in south SJ and it looked real similar to what's on the '11-'12 Leaf. But then again, I don't know for certain since I don't own one. Maybe some other Leaf owners who played w/the '13 Leaf can chime in?

It is possible they could've switched the underlying OS out and re-implemented everything on top of something else and preserved its appearance and behavior, but... I dunno, seems like a lot of work.

I think some of us asked Tim Gallagher about whether some of the stuff would be backported to previous Leafs like the SoC % indicator and I don't think we got a definitive yes/no. IIRC, the response was similar at the Phoenix meeting.

 

[edatoakrun]

Back on subject...

Can someone give an estimated guess when the epa range will be available? I'm getting more curious by the day. Will it be more than 76 Miles (ford focus electric)...

I'm not usually a betting man, but I'd be willing to bet it will be no more than 75, probably less than that. What have they really done that could improve it, after all? A cheaper motor that they are quick to claim won't hurt the mileage? A few very minor aero tweaks? Thinner packaging on the same battery cells? Heavier tires?

Ray

The Japanese MY2013 specs and range indicate just how much multiple small improvements can add up and be reflected in a single range rating.

I think the 2013 US spec LEAFs will have a significant actual improvement in range, but the reported changes in the EPA testing procedures leaves a lot of uncertainty as to the range number (or numbers) they will be given by the EPA.

Months ago I guessed 79 miles for the highest rated variation, with heat pump and equipped with the optimum wheels/tires.

 

[TEG]

...I find it unlikely that they've switched away from Windows Embedded Automotive for what you refer to as the central console. I poked around on the touchscreen LCD on the '13 Leaf on display in south SJ and it looked real similar to what's on the '11-'12 Leaf. But then again, I don't know for certain since I don't own one. Maybe some other Leaf owners who played w/the '13 Leaf can chime in?
It is possible they could've switched the underlying OS out and re-implemented everything on top of something else and preserved its appearance and behavior, but... I dunno, seems like a lot of work.
...

Yeah, I agree - it looked and behaved just like my 2011, so I suspect it is probably the same OS inside.
I put in my flash drive full of MP3 music and it listed the songs exactly as it does in the 2011, and played them them same (albeit with slightly better sound due to the upgraded stereo package.)

With that said, there was a new Google section to help with most efficient driving directions and such, but in the 2013 test car that section gave some error about being unable to connect to the network service. I guess since they haven't delivered any 2013 customer cars yet they hadn't fully enabled the new Google service yet.

 

[evnow]

My understanding is that most of the UX is completely custom built by Nissan - just the underlaying OS is Windows Embedded Automotive.

My guess is either the changed the version (and the application they have now is incompatiblle with the older version) - or they changed the chipset, in which case the executable will be incompatible. It is also possible they ported the application to a different OS - very unlikely.

 

[Bicster]

My wife and I drove a 2012 Leaf SL at the Houston Auto Show today. I was disappointed that they didn't have a 2013, even for the show floor. (I was really annoyed Ford didn't bring a Focus EV to the show, either. I wanted to see the cargo area.)

This is the first time I've driven electric, and it was about what I expected. Maybe it was even more "normal" than I was expecting. My wife didn't let on that she found anything objectionable about the car, other than the fact that we wouldn't be able to take it to Galveston due to the lack of DCQC's.

I'd hoped for stronger regen; Hopefully the B mode in the '13 will be more to my liking. The brakes were a touch grabby and the steering was light, but these are things I'd get used to quickly. I was really surprised at the difference in throttle response in ECO.

I disliked the interior fabric and color. It was already stained and wearing poorly for a car with 600 miles on it. I know these demo cars are treated roughly, but it makes me happy that leather is finally an option. My kids would kill that light grey fabric.

I wonder if I could talk a dealer into letting me take a demo Leaf (or rent one) for a few days. I didn't get to spend near enough time with it. Nitpicks aside, I liked it.

 

[GRA]

My wife and I drove a 2012 Leaf SL at the Houston Auto Show today. I was disappointed that they didn't have a 2013, even for the show floor. (I was really annoyed Ford didn't bring a Focus EV to the show, either. I wanted to see the cargo area.)

If cargo area with the rear seats up is an issue for you, you'll almost certainly be disappointed with the FFE. I had a look at one, and the height below the top of the rear seats is really limited. Shopping bags (paper ones), would maybe be level with the top, as long as nothing stuck out of them.
I like the Ford Focus EV and the C-Max Energi as _cars_, but rear-seat up cargo space is a must for me, and the battery just kills it. Not sure what the Fusion Energi looks like.

 

[Bicster]

Thanks. Folding rear seats do nothing for me. The child seats never come out. I didn't look at the C-Max because it's a hybrid without much AER. And I can't get over how awkward it looks.

I'm pretty much interested in the LEAF, the RAV4, and Tesla. Price and availability dictate the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

Thanks. Folding rear seats do nothing for me. The child seats never come out. I didn't look at the C-Max because it's a hybrid without much AER. And I can't get over how awkward it looks.

I'm pretty much interested in the LEAF, the RAV4, and Tesla. Price and availability dictate the LEAF.

Unfortunately, IMO your location suggests that an EV with active thermal cooling is almost mandatory, so do look at the FFE anyway. If you can make it work, I'd definitely consider it a better choice battery-wise for your climate, unless you're getting a short-term (24 months) lease or your required range is half or less of the Leaf's EPA range.