Future 1000 mile range Leaf?

[electricfuture]

Here is the breakthrough we have been waiting for. The short sighted article only mentions cell phone battery possibilities. 10X100miles = 1,000 miles per charge and charging in the same time frame we currently experience.

Replacement possibilities by the time our current battery packs die are endless!

http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/14/battery-breakthrough-could-improve-capacity-and-reduce-charge-time-by-a-factor-of-ten-each/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

Naturally this huge leap in battery power and efficiency won’t be in your phones next week; they estimate they could be on the market in three to five years

If the battery is not already in a prototype car undergoing tests - we won't see it in 3 years. Anyway, only a few products make it out of the labs because of scaling & cost problems.

There are probably one or two battery "break-throughs" published every other month. That just means we will really have some break-through come to the market by 2020.

 

[defiancecp]

Also, I think it's probably not feasible to have a widespread home charging solution capable of more than 6.6kw as current L2 units are. Anything significantly beyond that would require significant changes to the underlying power delivery system - and if you guys all thought the AV $2000+ installs were bad...
Still, it doesn't matter- with capacity like that, if you drive less than you charge it builds up a reservoir over time, going from (for example) near empty to full 1,000-mile range in around 5 days. So still an awesome tech.


More likely, though, we'll see extreme reductions in weight in conjunction with moderate increases in range - example, battery back weight down to 20% of current and still get a real-world 150-mile range (considering reduced weight plus increased efficiency).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

sounds promising but losing half the capacity in 150 charge cycles is not likely to translate well into automotive tech. granted, the article has no real technical details so hard to say. obviously if you could get 800 miles on a charge. 100 charge cycles could take a few years. no telling what kind of cycle life we could get if we opted for slowing charging rates, partial charges, etc.

but then again, the article states it pretty clearly. new charge storage breakthrus are announced nearly every month.

we strive for longer ranges in our cars, but fact of the matter; the ability to store and transport large amounts of electrical charge conveniently is really the holy grail and would immediately turn the direction of the entire world. its simply where we need to be. the person that comes up with a "eestor" like charge storage unit will have control of a trillion dollar industry

 

[adric22]

es it pretty clearly. new charge storage breakthrus are announced nearly every month.

Yep - I get to where I just ignore such news stories. I read a lot of tech news sites and for the last many years there is a story once or twice a month about some magical battery technology. It almost never gets produced for whatever reason. So I'm not holding out for anything until Nissan or somebody actually starts manufacturing a vehicle using such a battery.

 

[curtegg]

Gee, anybody calculate what the charge time would be on Level 1? Sorry honey you can't use the vehicle because it has to charge this week :lol:

 

[adric22]

Gee, anybody calculate what the charge time would be on Level 1? Sorry honey you can't use the vehicle because it has to charge this week :lol:

Yeah, it would literally take a week (actually, over 8 days) to fully charge on level 1. But as long as you charged it every day, then you'd simply be limited by how many miles you could drive a day, just like in the current Leaf. To use my Leaf as an example. When we first got it my wife was driving it to work and using the L1 charger. It would take about 12 hours to recharge every night for her 40-mile drive. It would just finish charging around the time she'd leave the next morning. Which means the car had a practical daily limit of 40 miles. Now, if she could have charged at work, it could have been more.

 

[electricfuture]

Does everyone understand that the 300 mile range Tesla S will start delivery next year just using higher density lithium batteries? Why be skeptical that a 1000 mile range battery pack won't be available in 5-10 years when it will be time to replace the Leaf's pack? This would only be a 3 fold improvement - you know like when lap top batteries when from 2 hour to 6 hour in about 4 years for the same price.

 

[planet4ever]

Ummm, I'm afraid you couldn't replace the LEAF's pack with the 300 mile Tesla pack. It weighs twice as much and is, I am sure, physically much larger. So even if (a very large if, IMHO) Tesla should manage to triple the capacity density of their pack in the next ten years, that wouldn't come anywhere close to providing a pack that could be dropped into your old LEAF to give 1000 miles.

Dream on.

Ray

 

[Caracalover]

Ummm, I'm afraid you couldn't replace the LEAF's pack with the 300 mile Tesla pack. It weighs twice as much and is, I am sure, physically much larger. So even if (a very large if, IMHO) Tesla should manage to triple the capacity density of their pack in the next ten years, that wouldn't come anywhere close to providing a pack that could be dropped into your old LEAF to give 1000 miles.

Dream on.

Ray

Tesla does not have the resources that Nissan, Ford, or even GM have. Now lets see who has an intrest in making better batteries, and we add names like Sony, IBM, and a list that would be way too long to go through.

Reality is no longer a dream. I used to dream of an electric car, and now we drive them. Exciting time. Way past due, and yes ten years from now there will be a better battery - without any doubt. Likely twice the energy for half the weight, and the options limited only by the money you have to spend.

 

[TomT]

One of the (many) problems that would have to be resolved is how and where do you charge a battery large enough to have a 1,000 mile range?

Here is the breakthrough we have been waiting for. The short sighted article only mentions cell phone battery possibilities. 10X100miles = 1,000 miles per charge and charging in the same time frame we currently experience.

 

[Caracalover]

One of the (many) problems that would have to be resolved is how and where do you charge a battery large enough to have a 1,000 mile range?

Here is the breakthrough we have been waiting for. The short sighted article only mentions cell phone battery possibilities. 10X100miles = 1,000 miles per charge and charging in the same time frame we currently experience.

Not sure why you see problems, much less many. People will find solutions, have a little faith in them.

 

[TomT]

Because, try as you might, you can't change the laws of physics. To charge a 1,000 mile battery - let's be generous and assume the the 24Kw battery in the Leaf actually gave the claimed 100 miles range - requires that you supply something like 414 KWh of energy (assuming 85 percent efficiency). On a 70 amp L2 charger, that would require just over a 24 hour day to do... Two and a half days on our current home 30 amp L2 chargers... Now clearly, if you are driving it on a daily basis you would never need to discharge and charge it that deeply or as often so the time would be less, but it is still a consideration.

One of the (many) problems that would have to be resolved is how and where do you charge a battery large enough to have a 1,000 mile range?

Here is the breakthrough we have been waiting for. The short sighted article only mentions cell phone battery possibilities. 10X100miles = 1,000 miles per charge and charging in the same time frame we currently experience.

Not sure why you see problems, much less many. People will find solutions, have a little faith in them.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I find it funny watching threads like this. There are PR releases about break throughs like this every week for the past 20 years or more and not one of these technologies that was "a couple years away" has even made it to market. Let's post them here until they become something with an actual working prototype because this "just around the corner" miracle tech game has been going on for a long time. Let's post all these here and we can keep track of the actual products that are made into deliverables for the EV market.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6494" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

Just make the battery that much smaller or in modules to rent. I am sure I would not buy a 1000 mile battery for Leaf even if it was a direct replacement. Give me the lighter and lower cost 200 mile version.

 

[tech01]

As early adapters we blaze a path for everyone to come. Where and when do we need access to infrastructure. what types of things are agravating, problematical, would allow retro up grades.
Carbon fiber and other lightweight materials (titanium aluminum) would increase range. Nasa is taking a keen interest in battery technology. In the meantime the leaf is the one shell out for.

 

[evnow]

One of the (many) problems that would have to be resolved is how and where do you charge a battery large enough to have a 1,000 mile range?

In practice, we will never get a 1,000 mile range "mainstream" car.

Manufacturers will find it more practical to reduce the weight of the battery and offer 300 mile range car at a lesser price.

What we really "want" are not necessarily 1,000 mile range car - but a 300 mile one that recharges in 15 minutes for $30K. I think that goal is achievable by 2020.

 

[planet4ever]

I doubt if motors, drive trains, or airflow are going to improve all that much, so a 300 mile recharge in 15 minutes will mean a 300 kW charging rate. That is going to be one very expensive charger, and if you get many of those cranked up at the same time it is going to put a huge load on the power grid. By the way, unless California changes its ways it is going to be one extremely expensive charging load as well.

Ray

 

[electricfuture]

Because, try as you might, you can't change the laws of physics. To charge a 1,000 mile battery - let's be generous and assume the the 24Kw battery in the Leaf actually gave the claimed 100 miles range - requires that you supply something like 414 KWh of energy (assuming 85 percent efficiency). On a 70 amp L2 charger, that would require just over a 24 hour day to do... Two and a half days on our current home 30 amp L2 chargers... Now clearly, if you are driving it on a daily basis you would never need to discharge and charge it that deeply or as often so the time would be less, but it is still a consideration.

You are thinking in terms of today's charging technologies for tomorrow's batteries. Again remember the lap top battery improvements in a short period of time. How many smart phones existed 10 years ago? Was there "cloud computing"? Was there cell phones or the internet for the public 15 years ago?

 

[evnow]

I doubt if motors, drive trains, or airflow are going to improve all that much, so a 300 mile recharge in 15 minutes will mean a 300 kW charging rate. That is going to be one very expensive charger, and if you get many of those cranked up at the same time it is going to put a huge load on the power grid. By the way, unless California changes its ways it is going to be one extremely expensive charging load as well.

Ofcourse regualtions & pricing structure will have to change. Chargers will get cheaper - just the economies of scale.

Afterall, gas stations will need some alternative.