Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[scottf200]

My question was to EVNow specifically since he's mocking it.

Not "mocking" it. Telling as I see it - they didn't make any changes to the T battery shape to make a usual 5th seat possible.
My comment about the 5th seat is no different than that of many Volt fans I've read.

Again so, evnow, you agree it is useful for kids?

 

[edatoakrun]

I've been browsing the various ATVA reports on 2013 Chevrolet Volt VIN: 1G1RA6E42DU113491, the one out of four tested with the highest miles driven and lowest TCO/mile.

...Operating Cost:
Purchase Cost: $43,050¹
Purchase Date: November 2012
Resale Value as of 10/2014: $13,848²
Sale Price: In Operation
Maintenance Cost: $0.01/mile
Operating Cost: $0.15/mile³
Total Ownership Cost: $0.51/mile...

Description of Vehicle Usage:
This vehicle is operated by various commercial vehicle fleets throughout the Southwestern
United States covering a mixture of city and highway routes. This vehicle is operated five to
seven days a week functioning as a typical vehicle in the overall fleet...

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/EREV/fs2013volt3491EREV.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously, you need to back out the incentive benefits from the purchase price above, just as with any other BEV/PHEV, to get accurate TCO.

Even so, IMO, the depreciation hit from buying a Volt adds another perspective on complaints about LEAF resale values.

All Trips¹
Overall gasoline fuel economy (mpg) 42
Overall DC electrical energy consumption (DC Wh/mi) 48
Total distance driven (mi) 62,417
Average trip distance (mi) 9
Percent of miles city | highway 59% | 41%

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/ftr2013ChevroletVolt3491.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also obviously, if you drive many miles between recharging, you won't use much more gas (and maybe less) with an efficient ICE or hybrid, than you would with a PHEV.

On the more positive side, the battery has only lost ~5% static capacity (down to ~15.9 kWh, from 16.7 at BOT) over ~17 months:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/batteryVolt3491.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone able to hazard a guess as to the total kWh throughput on its battery pack?

Main ATVA PHEV page with all reports is here:

http://avt.inl.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Weatherman]

On the more positive side, the battery has only lost ~5% static capacity (down to ~15.9 kWh, from 16.7 at BOT) over ~17 months:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/batteryVolt3491.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only 5% loss over nearly 71,000 miles. Can't beat that.

Let's see... my LEAF lost 24% over 17,000 miles. The comparison is downright sad.

 

[edatoakrun]

On the more positive side, the battery has only lost ~5% static capacity (down to ~15.9 kWh, from 16.7 at BOT) over ~17 months:

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/batteryVolt3491.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only 5% loss over nearly 71,000 miles. Can't beat that...

Looks like that ~5% loss was after only ~12,000 miles from the grid, the rest of the ~71 k miles being gasoline-fueled.

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/ftr2013ChevroletVolt3491.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

="Weatherman" ...Let's see... my LEAF lost 24% over 17,000 miles...

Did it lose 24% capacity (as determined by...?) or did it just lose 24% gids?

 

[Weatherman]

="Weatherman" ...Let's see... my LEAF lost 24% over 17,000 miles...

Did it lose 24% capacity (as determined by...?) or did it just lose 24% gids?

Amp-hour reading from LEAF Spy, combined with two capacity bars gone on the gauge, combined with 44-mile range from fully charged to low battery warning.

Whether it's 20% or 22% or 26% gone doesn't matter much. After only 17,000 miles the results are pretty bad all around.


By comparison, my Volt is still giving around 40 miles on a battery charge, just like it did when I drove it off the lot two summers ago.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

By comparison, my Volt is still giving around 40 miles on a battery charge, just like it did when I drove it off the lot two summers ago.

+1

I'm picturing this scene, fast forwarding 10 years: all the Leafs are in junkyards, Nissan is out of credits and exited the market, Tesla is bankrupt... but folks are still riding around in their old Volts getting the same 40 miles each day... and senile old codgers grouse to their grandkids about all the EV1s that got crushed, boring them to the point where they plead with their parents to not have to go visit grampa any more.

 

[evnow]

Again so, evnow, you agree it is useful for kids?

Hopefully - but as anyone with small kids can tell you don't assume a car seat can fit, until you try it. Looking forward to the photo of 3 car seats in Volt's rear seat (something we saw a Leaf tested with in early 2011).

Do you agree, this level of change to put a 3rd "seat" needn't have waited for the 2nd gen Volt and could have been done earlier ?

 

[evnow]

Yeah, two years from now! The Leaf is available THIS year... By that time, The Volt will likely have moved on to a new battery as well...

Fairly sure when Leaf 2 comes out the EV range will increase by much more than 25%.

I think you meant Volt there ... anyway we are probably looking at about 1 year of difference between Leaf 2 and Volt 2. I doubt Volt will have a dramatic increase in battery capacity in that time.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I doubt Volt will have a dramatic increase in battery capacity in that time.

My guess is when one of these major manufacturers comes out with a redesign/improvement on a product cycle that's pretty much what you'll be looking at from them for the next 5 years.

 

[scottf200]

Again so, evnow, you agree it is useful for kids?

Hopefully - but as anyone with small kids can tell you don't assume a car seat can fit, until you try it. Looking forward to the photo of 3 car seats in Volt's rear seat (something we saw a Leaf tested with in early 2011).

If you are talking full car seats in all three seats then I doubt they'd fit but I'm not sure of the percentage of families that need that!!
Some combination of car seat and booster is much more likely. Looks to me like these boosters would fit.

Do you agree, this level of change to put a 3rd "seat" needn't have waited for the 2nd gen Volt and could have been done earlier ?

Can't be that obvious. Had to be a good reason. Certainly it would have had to go through full crash protection testing internally and externally certified -- gov agency and insurance agency.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Volt appearing in Hertz ad; I wonder if they plan to add some charging units.

http://e.hertzusa.brierleycrm.com/public/m/jan_d2_usef" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our dedication to sustainability goes well beyond increased fuel efficiency and electric cars

 

[edatoakrun]

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/phev/2012VoltColdWeatherTestReport.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cold weather Volt range/efficiency test report from AVTA.

Note that the large drop in range reflects climate control use, as well as efficiency losses:

SUMMARY
On-road testing of a 2012 Chevrolet Volt was performed during the winter and spring months to determine the impact of cold temperature on driving and charging efficiency. A single test vehicle was parked and charged overnight in an unsheltered parking stall and driven by a single driver in the morning along a specified route. The route included a mix of rural, city, and highway roads in the Idaho Falls, Idaho area. Both the vehicle and the charging equipment were instrumented to record energy consumption and other usage parameters during driving and charging.

Ambient temperatures ranged from -17°F to 70°F during testing. Gasoline fuel economy, electrical energy consumption, electric vehicle (EV) mode range, and charge depleting (CD) mode range varied significantly over this temperature range. The Volt was able to complete the test route without consuming any gasoline, provided the ambient temperature stayed above 27°F. At or below 27°F, the vehicle’s control system periodically commanded the engine to start, consuming gasoline. The colder the temperature, the more often the engine cycled on and the more fuel was consumed. Gasoline fuel economy (not accounting for electrical energy consumption) was measured at 47 mpg during the coldest CD test, which averaged -15°F. Electrical energy efficiency during this test was 311 Wh/mi, based on measurement of direct current (DC) out of the battery. Electrical energy efficiency across all CD tests with cold starts ranged from 246 DC Wh/mi to 452 DC Wh/mi. This 84% increase in electrical energy consumption can be attributed to the effects of cold temperature and climate control load. The Volt’s actual EV range dropped from 42.0 miles at 70°F to 19.7 miles at -15°F, a reduction of 53%. The EV range fell at a rate of 0.6 miles per degree Fahrenheit in tests averaging 50°F to 25°F. CD range diverged from EV range in tests when temperatures dropped to or below 27°F during the test, because engine operation due to cold temperature also slowed the rate of battery depletion...

I'm still more interested in the Volt's kW draw for the ATM in cooling mode, but here we have what it takes to heat the battery over a cold (~12F to ~36 F range) weekend:

(page8) ...Charge energy consumed with respect to average ambient temperature.

On Friday evenings, the vehicle was plugged in as usual, but it remained plugged in until Monday morning. This provided the opportunity to observe whether the Volt continued to draw power if it remained connected to the grid after the battery was fully charged. Figure 9 shows a trace of the 5-minute average power (blue line), cumulative energy consumption (black line), and ambient temperature (magenta line) over time for a weekend charging event. The period of actual charging took place between hours 12 and 17. The EVSE supplied 12.76 AC kWh to the vehicle during this time. Note the eight power spikes visible after hour 20. This power was presumably drawn to periodically heat the battery. This post-charge power draw resulted in additional energy consumption of 3.56 AC kWh...

 

[mwalsh]

I'm still more interested in the Volt's kW draw for the ATM in cooling mode

Short answer...a lot!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Wow.... Tesla should be proud, their draws and cold related issues are peanuts in comparison!

 

[TomT]

All of which is probably meaningless on the redesigned 2016...

I'm still more interested in the Volt's kW draw for the ATM in cooling mode

Short answer...a lot!

 

[scottf200]

2016 GEN II

http://insideevs.com/pre-production-2016-chevrolet-volts-now-built-pricing-announcement-expected-next-month/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Additionally, Bill Wallace, General Motors’ director of global battery systems engineering, told Automotive News about how GM developed the battery pack for the 2016 Volt:

“…using data gained from examining the batteries in about 300 first-generation customer-owned Volts, engineers increased the amount of power the 2016 Volt’s electric motor drains from the battery pack by 9 percent before the gasoline engine kicks in.”

“The result: Two of the new cells have the same power as three of the old cells, and the 2016 Volt’s battery pack weighs 31 pounds less than the 2015 car’s pack.”
Wallace discussed weight reductions for the 2016 Volt, buy says that the increased electric-only range comes mostly from work done on the battery pack. Lastly, here’s an interesting tidbit:

“Volt customers told GM they wanted to go farther on a single charge. GM tested the new Volt’s batteries in the Chevrolet Spark EV, he said.”
“The experience from the Spark EV gives us exceptionally high confidence.”

This is not a GM video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9CEjMCG4dE[/youtube]

 

[BernieTx]

Does GM recommend not parking the Volt in direct sunlight in the hot summer months? Would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged?

 

[MTNRanger]

No, GM doesn't warn of parking in sunlight. There have been pretty much zero Volts exhibiting battery degradation; even ones with 150k miles or more. The Volt has the most over-engineered and protected battery pack on the market.

 

[edatoakrun]

="MTNRanger"...There have been pretty much zero Volts exhibiting battery degradation; even ones with 150k miles or more...

Actual battery degradation experienced by 2011 and 2013 Volts can be seen from test reports linked on this page, as discussed previously on this thread:

http://avt.inel.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[MTNRanger]

="MTNRanger"...There have been pretty much zero Volts exhibiting battery degradation; even ones with 150k miles or more...

Actual battery degradation experienced by 2011 and 2013 Volts can be seen from test reports linked on this page, as discussed previously on this thread:

http://avt.inel.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. One test showed 94.6% of original capacity after 70,766 miles. Another showed 96.4% after 60,131 miles. That's close enough for me.