DanCar
Well-known member
23.5% of the cost is for dealers. Wow, Tesla is making out very well. Thanks for the link.GRA said:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf
23.5% of the cost is for dealers. Wow, Tesla is making out very well. Thanks for the link.GRA said:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf
It doesn't all go to the dealers. Another version of the Vyas et al chart I have breaks it down as 20% distribution, 3.5 % advertising.DanCar said:23.5% of the cost is for dealers. Wow, Tesla is making out very well. Thanks for the link.GRA said:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf
Not necessarily. Tesla has costs also that would otherwise be the dealer burden.DanCar said:23.5% of the cost is for dealers. Wow, Tesla is making out very well. Thanks for the link.GRA said:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf
DanCar said:23.5% of the cost is for dealers. Wow, Tesla is making out very well. Thanks for the link.GRA said:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf
The further the EV goes the more credits you get. The more credits you get the more Tundras and Silverados you can sell.DanCar said:Don't see how that is relevant.
You need to do a little work understanding costs. You're treating ex post facto averages as fixed costs. This is obviously untrue. Adding $500 to a vehicle's interior doesn't change your ad rate just as advertising more doesn't change your cost of manufacturing the vehicle.GRA said:No, you don't. Manufacturing costs only make up about 50% of the MSRP of a car. For a breakdown, see http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have trouble seeing how the Tesla model scales.edatoakrun said:Tesla's business model is far more interesting than it's cars, IMO.
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Back on topic, I think the "200 mile, $30k EV" ($30 k before incentives, and 200 miles of practical range at freeway speeds) be available from a number of manufactures by ~2023, but both Tesla's and GM's for getting there in the next few years are probably hype.
IMO, much significant will be when the first manufacturer can produce the "120 mile, $30k DC capable EV" ($30 k before incentives, and 120 miles of practical range at freeway speeds) and sell it profitably in large numbers.
I'd say Nissan is the odds-on favorite to be that BEV manufacturer, when that happens, by ~2017.
Tesla hasn't said that. What Elon Musk has said is a 200 mile range car for under $40K by 2016/2017. Tesla may have also said a $30K, but without range or date qualifier. The $30K will probably be 160 mile "Tesla" range and late 2017 at the earliest. So 4 years away.edatoakrun said:... "200 mile, $30k EV" ($30 k before incentives, and 200 miles of practical range at freeway speeds) ...snip..., but both Tesla's and GM's for getting there in the next few years are probably hype.
LEAFfan said:Ok, let's get real here. The OP who started this thread needs to change the title. For those of you that didn't read the original article, that was the title. BUT, when you read the article, it says GM is going to price it about the same as the Volt. The Volt is not $30K! And remember, these prices are before any incentives which may or may not be available at a later date.
DanCar said:Tesla hasn't said that. What Elon Musk has said is a 200 mile range car for under $40K by 2016/2017. Tesla may have also said a $30K, but without range statement.
Obviously, these are averages. But AFAIA, all the main companies are buying battery cells but assembling the packs themselves, so they are incurring the assembly and installation costs (plus post-assembly testing?), plus they're paying the markup from their suppliers who have included their own costs, transportation costs etc. And since the battery cells plus the packs are the single most expensive component of the car, it's clear that any increase in pack cost will have an out-sized effect on MSRP. It may not be double, but it's going to be a very large increment.SanDust said:The further the EV goes the more credits you get. The more credits you get the more Tundras and Silverados you can sell.DanCar said:Don't see how that is relevant.
You need to do a little work understanding costs. You're treating ex post facto averages as fixed costs. This is obviously untrue. Adding $500 to a vehicle's interior doesn't change your ad rate just as advertising more doesn't change your cost of manufacturing the vehicle.GRA said:No, you don't. Manufacturing costs only make up about 50% of the MSRP of a car. For a breakdown, see http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/57.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The thing is, as they currently exist a '200 mile' range BEV is a '120 miles of practical range at freeway speeds' car. Or even less, late in life in less than ideal conditions.edatoakrun said:Back on topic, I think the "200 mile, $30k EV" ($30 k before incentives, and 200 miles of practical range at freeway speeds) be available from a number of manufactures by ~2023, but both Tesla's and GM's for getting there in the next few years are probably hype.
IMO, much significant will be when the first manufacturer can produce the "120 mile, $30k DC capable EV" ($30 k before incentives, and 120 miles of practical range at freeway speeds) and sell it profitably in large numbers.
I'd say Nissan is the odds-on favorite to be that BEV manufacturer, when that happens, by ~2017.
Boomer23 said:LEAFfan said:Ok, let's get real here. The OP who started this thread needs to change the title. For those of you that didn't read the original article, that was the title. BUT, when you read the article, it says GM is going to price it about the same as the Volt. The Volt is not $30K! And remember, these prices are before any incentives which may or may not be available at a later date.
I added two (2) question marks to the thread title, going the article title one better.
LTLFTcomposite said:Near as I can tell 4 mi/kwh is an immutable barrier of EVs.
The point being what? Of course a larger battery pack will increase the cost of manufacturing the car. That doesn't mean, however, that doubling the pack cost will also double all other costs. In fact the other costs won't change much if at all. If the steering column costs $50 for a car with a 20 kWh pack it's going to cost $50 for a car with a 40 kWh pack. The costs are simply unrelated.GRA said:Obviously, these are averages. But AFAIA, all the main companies are buying battery cells but assembling the packs themselves, so they are incurring the assembly and installation costs (plus post-assembly testing?), plus they're paying the markup from their suppliers who have included their own costs, transportation costs etc. And since the battery cells plus the packs are the single most expensive component of the car, it's clear that any increase in pack cost will have an out-sized effect on MSRP. It may not be double, but it's going to be a very large increment.
LEAFfan said:... BUT, when you read the article, it says GM is going to price it about the same as the Volt. The Volt is not $30K! And remember, these prices are before any incentives which may or may not be available at a later date.
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