Good NYT Article About Charging Infrastructure

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Its so funny that L3 is getting held up (hostage) by the promise of a non-existing SAE certified standard that fits non-existing cars. I mean there are no SAE cars even planned! It should be simple, just look at a gas station. Install CHAdeMo units now and leave a few electrical stub ups for the SAE units if they ever get certified AND have cars that use it. Every gas station I have been to has different levels of fuel and even diesel. Those different fuel nozzles don't fit into a single gas tank design either and the fuel pumps are certified for different standards based on what they are dispensing. All seems to have worked out fine.

And/Or

Single L3 units with both CHAdeMo and SAE cables. No need to take sides, just pick which charge handle your car uses. This is not rocket science.

With all the fun and games around L3. I will not be surprised if the first Quick Charge Stations are done by Co-Ops and other independent EV groups. Think how easy the EPA sign off would be on such a site. The units are already UL approved! No toxic chemicals, no environmental impact, noise pollution, air pollution, etc. Gosh, if locals complained about having a "gas" station around, it could be made to look like just about anything and therefore put anywhere. The design could even be fully enclosed to not look like EV's frequent it and silence professional complainers.

This should not be hard or based on an either/or choice.
 
oakwcj said:
The article is quite accurate about Level 1 and 2 charging, and the standards argument over QC.
Thanks for the pointer! If you think that was an unusually factual and well written article, the reason seems to be that Csaba Csere is an unusually knowledgable journalist. He's a mechanical engineer who worked for Ford, was Editor in Chief of Car and Driver magazine, and raced NASCAR and Formula One cars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csaba_Csere Would that all the news coverage of EVs were by journalists of his caliber!

TRONZ said:
Every gas station I have been to has different levels of fuel and even diesel.
Moving now from journalism to wild unsubstantiated rumors :) I reported here on a new SAE standard to simplify gas pumps the same way they are simplifying L3 charging. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=122915#p122915
 
TRONZ said:
With all the fun and games around L3. I will not be surprised if the first Quick Charge Stations are done by Co-Ops and other independent EV groups. Think how easy the EPA sign off would be on such a site. The units are already UL approved! No toxic chemicals, no environmental impact, noise pollution, air pollution, etc.

So let's start a Co-op of regional Leaf owners to purchase and install strategic L3 QC stations. At a cost of 20 Leaf Owners ponying up $2000 apiece with subsequent Leaf owners buying into the plan--it would still be cheaper than what DRG in Texas intends to charge on their various monthly or annual plans. Other thoughts??
 
So let's start a Co-op of regional Leaf owners to purchase and install strategic L3 QC stations.
I found myself thinking the same thing today. With the growth of a EV technology, there is an opportunity to demonstrate that alternative business models and organization might deliver a better solution than the traditional approaches to infrastructure.

A rapid growth of L3 options is indeed desirable for enabling long trips approaching status quo elapsed times, but there might also be some interesting models surrounding L2 for those who are open to a shift in the longer distance travel experience. This approach might prove to be rewarding in its own way and perhaps a bit more approachable in terms of cost and infrastructure demands.

For instance, most of the SF bay area is within 80 miles of Manteca, CA. A charging station there would enable access to the Sierra foothills near Yosemite (although really getting into the park or mountains would need one more partial charge). There are houses listed in Manteca for $55k, or less. With $10k down, multiple members of a co-op could buy such a place with <$300 monthly payment, including infrastructure cost to install a couple L2 EVSE and perhaps a few L6-20 receptacles for L2 modded portable EVSEs. Rent the home out at an attractive price to an EV ambassador/host and charge slightly over cost of electricity for members to charge (and slightly less than market equivalent gasoline to non-members?). If volumes were right, this modest up front investment shouldn't have problems maintaining positive cash flow, which could then be invested in improvements to the station (PV, amenities to use during charge, etc.) or invested in new station locations, or even returned to members based on popular vote. Some investment in decent website reservation and real-time availability information would improve the user experience, especially if the co-op grew into a network of locations, and there are endless possibilities for developing complementary amenities to enjoy while charging. It would be something of a built in business opportunity for the station host to offer anything from food, to overnight apartments, to craft classes or other activities.

Of course, it would be more legit to do such things in commercial zoning with business licenses, etc. but if you skip the selling to non-members part and if the amenities are part of the co-op, I think it might be possible to stay on the right side of the law with such an approach, since each user is technically an owner of the facility. Still, there may be potential to run afoul of some zoning restrictions in a picky municipality and/or raise the ire of neighbors if the traffic got heavy, but the idea works just as well, if a bit more expensive, in commercial zoning. In rural areas, charging stations could be coincident with u-pick farms or some recreational opportunity and could still be part of the co-op network. Perhaps affiliating with the EV charging co-op would be a opportunity for rural communities to diversify income and introduce/educate users about an area they might not otherwise stop to appreciate.

Of course, the big caveat is the need for a cultural shift that accepts the idea that 12 hours of a precious weekend will be spent in Manteca instead of speeding through it at 70mph on the way to the mountains. This is a hard sell and perhaps a lost cause, since time is something no one seems to think they have enough of, but I stand by the notion that there is some room for carving out an alternative, slower paced long distance travel scenario with some potential for rewarding experiences/opportunities along the way. Am I nuts? L3 will be extremely valuable for necessary "special occasions," but with some potential detriment to battery life if used regularly, isn't it desirable to conceive an alternative complementary solution?
 
hgoudey said:
So let's start a Co-op of regional Leaf owners to purchase and install strategic L3 QC stations.
I found myself thinking the same thing today. With the growth of a EV technology, there is an opportunity to demonstrate that alternative business models and organization might deliver a better solution than the traditional approaches to infrastructure.

We intend to do that in the San Diego area.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=137884#p137884" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Back
Top