Goodbye Leaf, Hello Model 3

[golfcart]

Moving on, you pretty much know exactly what you are getting in the Leaf +, but not exactly the price. Bottom line, what do you think ?
I forget, did you ever consider the Bolt ?

Long story short I did consider the bolt and liked it but I'd prefer a comparably priced S plus due to styling, interior, V2H potential, full tax credit (next fall) and brand experience with Nissan. I'm gonna QC daily for now to make my winter commute then look at an S plus or deeply discounted 40kWh leaf next fall. If a $35k M3 came around this year I'd consider it as well but it'd be a stretch without the credit or ability to negotiate.

 

[tesleaf]

If you have money to buy Tesla X D100, get a model 3 and buy a property.
Easier said than done.

BTW, Tesla emailed me and called today to sell me a Tesla.
I already made a car purchase 3 months ago.

 

[Nubo]

A well known Youtuber said Tesla don't sell parts. So the parts catalog is out but you cannot buy new parts. You have to go to junkyard or eBay for parts.

For most cars, the OEM parts are too expensive for common issues anyways, so I would use NAPA for stuff like 12v batteries, brake rotors/shoes, remanufactured half axle/alternator/pumps; use RockAuto for (say) rock guard, window regulator, broken door handle, trim pieces.

If owning a Tesla outside of warranty means: you take it to the Tesla service center and pay whatever the price is, then I think it is going to be beyond my means.

Agreed. For me it's always been that way with dealerships anyway. If you had a dealer build you an economy car from parts it'd probably run to several million bucks.

 

[powersurge]

I don't know why people talk so much about Leaf vs. Model 3.

The are cars for 2 different demographics and uses.. Its like the difference between going to dinner at the local diner and going to Peter Luger's. Also, I cannot think why anyone would buy a Tesla long-term. They are 2 different animals.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

^ totally agree. The beach mansion probably had a tad bit more margin than the M3, but in both cases they are above baseline. Funny thing is I actually do know people that have have downgraded their main house for a beach house. (disclaimer - I do not own a 2nd house).

Moving on, you pretty much know exactly what you are getting in the Leaf +, but not exactly the price. Bottom line, what do you think ?
I forget, did you ever consider the Bolt ?

Wish I had your knowledge as there are a LOT of questions in my mind.

Nissan Energy? standard or a very spendy option on limited trim options?

If standard on all trims; A HUGE win but TBH, that would be too big so its likely gonna cost ya. BUT if available on S Plus and not combined with another package, its still a win.

 

[SalisburySam]

I don't know why people talk so much about Leaf vs. Model 3.

The are cars for 2 different demographics and uses.. Its like the difference between going to dinner at the local diner and going to Peter Luger's. Also, I cannot think why anyone would buy a Tesla long-term. They are 2 different animals.

While I think I understand your arguments, I respectfully suggest that there may be more demographic similarity than might be obvious. By the way, I do love Peter Luger's for that special over-the-top steak dinner, I also eat at the local diner and far more often, especially since dining at Luger's involves a trip from North Carolina to Brooklyn...but I digress.

I have a 2012 LEAF, and I have a 2018 Model 3. I'm the same demographic today as 9 years ago when I first put in my $99 reservation for the LEAF, though I'll admit to being 9 years older, and a tad wider. My interest in the Tesla was the short and declining range of the LEAF and the disappointing range improvements made to the LEAF over the years. Range is really my only ongoing complaint about the LEAF, but it is a significant one. Even with the "latest, greatest, announced" technology, the LEAF is still only able to muster slightly over 200 miles range.

Back in 2010 when I reserved and 2012 when I took delivery, the LEAF was the first widespread all-electric vehicle with sufficient range for being a 2nd or 3rd vehicle in a family, used by the person with the shortest commute. Over the years, EV's have developed the range to be actual ICE replacements, primarily in my opinion due to ranges exceeding 300 miles (Model 3), and for those needing only a commute vehicle, 200 miles (new LEAF, Bolt, Model 3 Mid-Range), and so on. The LEAF/Bolt/Others rely on home and 3rd-party charging options; the Teslas rely on home and the SuperCharger network. With ranges increasing to the level of ICE replacement, the annoyance factor now is length of time to do charging on a trip. I never was able to take my LEAF on any trip as such, and with its really decreased range, it would be folly to do so now even with a better 3rd-party charging network available. My Model 3 benefits from the SuperCharger network, but even that adds about two hours to what is a 10-hour road trip in an ICE, and winter worsens performance and range of all EV's if for no other reason that I will absolutely run the heater, though other factors are at play as well such as cold air density, battery temperatures, and so on.

So I think the LEAF demographic is and legitimately interested in the Model 3 because of its ICE-replacement ability. Yes, cost may preclude actual acquisition but that 2019 LEAF builds out online at almost $45k for Premier with bells & whistles, and that still yields only about 225 miles or so, worse in cold weather of course.

Regarding why anyone would buy a Tesla long-term, I have to reverse the question. Why would anybody buy a LEAF long-term? I think the answer is the same: it meets their needs, perceived or real, better than the other vehicle. I bought my LEAF, I bought my Model 3. I expect to keep the LEAF until the Model Y is available and, if I like it, trade in the LEAF for the Y as a 2nd vehicle. And maybe even trade in the Model 3 as well as I'm more and more not needed a 2nd vehicle for anything more than convenience.

Just my thoughts here.

 

[specialgreen]

The are cars for 2 different demographics and uses.. ...I cannot think why anyone would buy a Tesla long-term.

I think that's what I'm seeing: people buy a Tesla with the warranty; but 90% of the Target Demographic will trade-up or sell it before the warranty expires. There is a secondary market of cars from Tesla CPO with 4-year warranty, which fit a different demographic. But most of those drivers will also sell it when the warranty expires. And the primary buyer is Tesla CPO.

Maybe Tesla is working on a plan for what will happen to all the 8+ year old Teslas. Maybe Tesla repair services will become competitive to a normal car (don't bet on it, as Tesla has replaced normal things like door handles with "special" parts right and left).

Or maybe Tesla will take a step closer to a vendor-maintenance lock-in: offer a $4,000 4-year warranty option on all CPO cars, regardless of age. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for an EV, if it means the battery is effectively leased (Zoe battery lease can cost $1000/year). If owners had to trade-up every 4 years, it would also give Tesla an opportunity to overhaul the fleet, and also to keep moving owners up, up, up in the product catalog. As EVs with non-rusting body panels could conceivably drive for a long, long time, a 4-year refresh of interior upholstry and suspension wear parts could avoid needless junkyard disposal.

By selling a car which most owners will only drive under warranty, and then sell back to Tesla to get another new/used one (under warranty), Tesla is providing something like a lease (for the duration of the warranty period)... except in this case, the owners are floating the cash. At some point, Tesla could have enough capital to shift to a lease-only model (with maintenance agreement), and really take control of the use and maintenance of its product.

 

[tesleaf]

Any new EV is a luxury.
I bought a used leaf because for my short daily commute it made sense money-wise.
I traded in my ICE for a leaf and got money back because the ICE was worth more than the leaf.
If I had to put cash into this purchase, I probably would not have done it.

 

[SageBrush]

Any new EV is a luxury.

in the case of the Tesla Model 3 MR, no more so than a new Honda Accord ICE
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/12/comparing-tesla-model-3-to-honda-accord-from-an-engineers-perspective/

 

[jonathanfields4ever]

Is this guy still going on about Model 3? Yes, it’s a great car, but it’s not for everyone. And the 2019 hybrid Accord we’re apparently comparing it to now has an insane feature set and can be had today fully-loaded for $36K or so. The cheapest Model 3 that’s available in a reasonable time frame is $47K, and would be less environmentally friendly over the life of the car than the Honda depending on how coal-heavy the electricity in your state is.

That’s not even mentioning quality issues. I’d trust a Honda over a Tesla any day. Hell, the Model X in the Tesla show room at my local mall has a visibly crooked frunk and frunk latch. That’s the one they chose to show potential customers.

Who do you think is more annoying? Android fanboys or Tesla fanboys?

 

[tesleaf]

Any new EV is a luxury.

in the case of the Tesla Model 3 MR, no more so than a new Honda Accord ICE
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/12/comparing-tesla-model-3-to-honda-accord-from-an-engineers-perspective/

I agree.
If someone is buying a loaded Accord and pays $44000, he is buying it as a luxury item to treat himself.
BTW, I configured the top trim Accord and it came out to $39870 with destination charge included.

 

[badq45t]

I posted my opinion, I OWN a leaf from Dec 2011 onwards. I still have it and will be having to replace it due to battery degredation. I would lease a leaf but I wouldn't buy one until Nissan puts liquid cooling feature in.

 

[pipestem]

I posted my opinion, I OWN a leaf from Dec 2011 onwards. I still have it and will be having to replace it due to battery degredation. I would lease a leaf but I wouldn't buy one until Nissan puts liquid cooling feature in.

I have to asked about "badq45t", as in you had a bad Infinity Q45t ?

 

[jdoe000007]

anbody looking to switch to Tesla model 3/S should join the Tesla Model 3/S group first and see the posts. What I see from the posts is that every one loves their Model 3/S but the following...
-out of warranty repair cost for basic things like tires, windshields etc are $1000.00 plus
-long hold times for customer service number
-long wait time as the service center
-customer service being bad etc.
-cant buy parts, being a diy guy is a big no-no for me.

I was looking at used Model S but the facebook group really had me thinking about the eplus version.
My 2015 SL has been very reliable so I will be sticking with Nissan when the eplus version comes out.

 

[Leaf15]

Hello Ionic EV Will miss my Leaf Thank, but no thanks Model 3 :lol:

 

[GlennD]

A Tesla 3 Mid range is over 50K with only color and auto pilot. That is too much for me. Maybe someday I will get a base car but I am not holding my breath.

 

[badq45t]

I am indeed Badq45t from Infiniti--been using that handle over on Nissan Infiniti car owners for years. I have a 1997 Q45t still in daily flight, cancels out the gas guzzler with the Leaf on the road.

 

[jonemyers]

I actually just purchased a used 2014 Model S to replace our 2013 Leaf S we purchased used 3 years ago. The Leaf has been a very reliable vehicle but I really found the range to be a major limit and forced us to have a "backup" gasoline powered vehicle. Clearly the S is a whole different class of vehicle than a Leaf S. We considered a new 200+ mile electric vehicle but the used S was about the same cost and with the well thought out supercharger stations it will get me anywhere I need to go with having to own a backup car. In the Portland area the ChadeMO quick chargers are relatively common but sadly half the time they are broken in some way which makes it a chore to actually drive beyond my home charger range. The Model S's hatch can fit my large road bicycle without having to take the wheels off and is extremely easy to get things in and out. We will see what the long term reliability will be. The range for the 4.5 year old car is still over 250 miles. My Leaf had already lost one bar even though it has lived its entire life in Portland and not charged up to 100% very often. The Leaf was a great starter electric car.

 

[ElectricEddy]

I Clearly the S is a whole different class of vehicle than a Leaf S.

My vote for" understatement of the year"