Goodbye Nissan Leaf, hello Kia Soul EV

[hingisfan]

Anyone have one in the cold with a winter range update???

 

[nerys]

Leaf or kia?

 

[hingisfan]

Kia....would love a hard core winter range review...maybe a bit early in the winter yet.

 

[hingisfan]

I test drove yesterday at Kia Meadowvale in Mississauga Ontario. I got them to leave the car outside overnight and take a picture of the dash. Temperature was -10C overnight, and -8C during test drive, very windy too.

At 8pm the battery was 99% and showing 154km.

When I got there at 1130am the next day, it still said 99%, but it said 104kms.

I drove 43km somewhat aggressively, but mostly cruising on the highway at 120km/h.

Range dropped from 104km to 54km (drop of 50km when I really drove 43km)

Then on the way back with a warm battery in ECO mode and going 95km/h I drove 38km but range only dropped from 54km to 24km. (30km when I drove 38km)

In total I drove 81km and the range dropped from 104km to 24km, so it was right overall.

I'm guessing if I would have started out in the cold battery/car and driven 105km/h I could have went about 100km without too much trouble. More if it would have been plugged in and preheated or parked inside, less if it was colder (gets down to -25C here)...so depending on these factors winter range could be anywhere from 80km to 120km.

Overall I liked the car better than the Leaf...sits taller, more bells and whistles, more headroom. Probably not as quick off the line in normal mode, and Luxury trim does not get any stereo upgrade, the Bose on the Leaf is far better. Has parking sensors, but the Leaf all around view is much better. But I would still take the Soul EV over the current Leaf.

Soul EV also has 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, and 8 years on battery and drivetrain.

 

[electriccarfan]

I mentioned the icing on the cake in my original post. Here is the cherry on top: At the click of a button Soul has 3 levels of power steering: sport, normal and Leaf ehm, comfort. No more mushy steering wheel.

Our m/kW is at 4.3 My Leaf was 3.8 Now that is a 100-mile car.

You may begin to cry now.

In my 2014 Leaf S I'm getting 4.8 miles/kWh average (every day, even now that its Winter here in NW Ohio with temps between 4F and 30F). All this last week its been crazy cold (below 10F most every day) and I've not withheld from using the heater. I always keep my Heated Seats & Heated Steering Wheel on as well as the heater. I usually always set the heater to "Auto" to maintain 73F cabin temp. I don't really cycle the heater on/off too much either (only occasionally since I usually forget to). I'm getting between 45-50 Miles per charge everyday.

It seems like either your driving style was aggressive with the Leaf or something, because I usually get 4.9 to 5.0 miles/kWh in the Spring and Summer months (my numbers are while in ECO mode of course). 3.8 miles/kWh seems really low to.

 

[nosuchthing]

Nope. Normal driving. Never got over 4.0. Now this was a 2011. You have a newer Leaf. It mostly hung around 3.8. I want no 5.0 merit badge. It's a car, not a toy.

You must be hypermiling. Can't do that in Ca. 62 mph minimum or you get run over.

 

[electriccarfan]

Nope. Normal driving. Never got over 4.0. Now this was a 2011. You have a newer Leaf. It mostly hung around 3.8. I want no 5.0 merit badge. It's a car, not a toy.

You must be hypermiling. Can't do that in Ca. 62 mph minimum or you get run over.

Well, I used to Hypermile all the time when I drove my previous gasoline cars (out of necessity). But, ever since I got my Leaf I'll admit that I drive a slight bit quicker now. Despite that though, I always have people right up on my back bumper, and or speed around me. I was told once a while back that I do drive like an old lady. But, I do sporadically have a little fun with the Leaf. Mostly, because the Leaf just pulls off the line, and I run the heat a lot (in addition to the Heated Seats & Heated Steering-wheel), so that brings my average down. All in all, my average is usually around 4.7-4.8. However, I did just check it today, and my average dropped down to 4.6. I think this is due to being finally into winter time (we've had 3 weeks of temps below 35F day and night). All last week I don't think it got any higher than 15F daytime or nighttime. I will say though that I NEVER drive the expressway (I just go through town), so that keeps my average up somewhat.

I plan on moving to California (Hanford, CA) in April/May. Do they drive fast out there in California? I think that'll take a little getting used to for me. I always do the 60MPH speed limit or 5 above, and I just hold that speed (in normal D mode) all the way there (when I rarely used the expressway).

Its too bad that you've left the Nissan Leaf community. I hope the Soul EV is better for your needs. I personally plan on waiting until my lease is up in May 2017 and checking out the 2nd Gen Leaf (to re-lease).

 

[GerryAZ]

The Kia Soul EV sounds interesting. Unfortunately, Kia is unwilling to sell one to me here in Arizona. I have been looking at new EV's since there is a possibility that my 2011 LEAF will be declared a total loss after being rear-ended. There is not much to choose from if you do not live in California. Leaf is probably still the best choice for my range and usage needs. Besides Nissan and Tesla, the only other options here are Ford Focus (back ordered), Smart (insufficient range), and BMW (less EPA range than Leaf, but may be adequate--will take another look). I will probably stick with Nissan since Tesla is more car and expense than I need and those two companies are the only ones really committed to nationwide EV sales.

Gerry

 

[nosuchthing]

Maybe you can sneak Spark into Az.

 

[nosuchthing]

I plan on moving to California (Hanford, CA) in April/May.

As long as you stay on 198 you may be able to do your 45. Once you hit 5 or 99 thing move much more swiftly.

And...it's gonna be hot. Very hot. Central Valley hot. Hope you have the lizzard batt in that Leaf.

 

[electriccarfan]

The Kia Soul EV sounds interesting. Unfortunately, Kia is unwilling to sell one to me here in Arizona. I have been looking at new EV's since there is a possibility that my 2011 LEAF will be declared a total loss after being rear-ended. There is not much to choose from if you do not live in California. Leaf is probably still the best choice for my range and usage needs. Besides Nissan and Tesla, the only other options here are Ford Focus (back ordered), Smart (insufficient range), and BMW (less EPA range than Leaf, but may be adequate--will take another look). I will probably stick with Nissan since Tesla is more car and expense than I need and those two companies are the only ones really committed to nationwide EV sales.

Gerry

Can't you drive over into California, buy one, and drive it back to Arizona? Can they legally refuse to sell it to you just because you live in Arizona? That wouldn't seem fair and or legal to me. I actually got my 14' Leaf in Michigan and I live in Ohio. I live close enough to have been able to drive it back home (20 miles on the expressway).

 

[GRA]

<snip>
I plan on moving to California (Hanford, CA) in April/May. Do they drive fast out there in California?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: No, stop, you're killing me! Let me guess, you'll be here all week?

I think that'll take a little getting used to for me. I always do the 60MPH speed limit or 5 above, and I just hold that speed (in normal D mode) all the way there (when I rarely used the expressway).

Its too bad that you've left the Nissan Leaf community. I hope the Soul EV is better for your needs. I personally plan on waiting until my lease is up in May 2017 and checking out the 2nd Gen Leaf (to re-lease).

In general, when freeway traffic allows, the flow is 4-5 miles above the speed limit, although it can be a lot more than that on some freeways at certain times. However, it is possible to pace the semis and drive at say 62-64 or even occasionally as low as 59 in the right lane on I-5 in the Central Valley (70 mph speed limit with lots of people doing 80+, but 55 mph limit if pulling a trailer) without feeling like you're taking your life in your hands, as there's room for people to pass you. Even so, many people won't be comfortable at less than 65. At least, you can do that in good visibility (day) conditions - I wouldn't want to try 60 or less at night unless traffic was flowing near that speed, as people's reactions are slower and their ability to judge distance and closure worse. Unfortunately, lots of idiots don't slow down when it's foggy, and there are multi-car chain reaction pileups as a result.

Speed is probably a bit less on 99, but I haven't driven it recently for any distance so can't say. They've been upgrading 99 over the past few decades to make most of it limited access now, but you've got a small to medium-size city about every 30 miles, so you can expect the speed limits and average speed to be lower in those areas.

Agree with iletric about the summer temps, you'll be using the A/C. And in winter, really thick Tule fog* is very common, and sometimes hangs around for weeks. Modern headlights seem to deal with it a lot better than old sealed beams (I once had to follow a bus at night for about 20 miles at about 25 mph, because I couldn't see the shoulder beyond the line, or where the road went at intersections) but fog lamps still might be a good idea, and you'll be using the heat/defrost. I've had them on both my Subarus because I knew I'd be crossing the Central Valley frequently in winter to go skiing, but oddly enough have never had to drive in really bad (<50 foot) Tule fog since I've had them - 1/8th mile viz. is a breeze by comparison.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_fog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrT6VqJfrRUpyAA.AcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBsOXB2YTRjBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--?_adv_prop=image&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&va=tule+fog&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[electriccarfan]

I plan on moving to California (Hanford, CA) in April/May.

As long as you stay on 198 you may be able to do your 45. Once you hit 5 or 99 thing move much more swiftly.

And...it's gonna be hot. Very hot. Central Valley hot. Hope you have the lizzard batt in that Leaf.

I don't think I have the Hot Weather Pack (Lizard battery) since I currently live in the NWOhio/SE Michigan area. Hot weather around here is only a problem during June-September, so I've never had to deal with that too much. The temps during that time of year here usually top out around 80F-90F most days and rarely get above 90F for long time periods. I'd think the cold weather would be more of a problem during Winter. I guess that its a good thing I'm only leasing my Leaf (just over 28 months left out of 36).

I guess that if I have problems with heat related degradation, I'll have to make use of the warranty for a fresh pack (after I fall below 9 capacity bars before 5 years/60,00 Miles). But, since I'm handing my car back in May of 2017, I hopefully shouldn't have to worry too much about that. After my lease is up (when I'm ready for the gen 2 Leaf), I hope the gen 2 Leaf has a climate controlled pack so its unaffected by temperature. Otherwise, I'll have to get another EV that does, with heat like that. Before a few weeks ago, I never knew the middle of California gets hot like that. You'd think Nissan would've made all the battery packs the Hot Weather pack.

California definitely seems different culturally than NW Ohio/ SE Michigan. Its looks like you guys are heavily populated, have great weather all year, and etc. I've never been there, but I think I'll probably like it. We pretty much drive 70 MPH in Michigan (most people drive 75-80 MPH), and in Ohio the speed limit is 60-65 MPH (and most people do 65-70 MPH). I don't think I'll have too much trouble with the speed limits but I plan on staying off the major expressways if possible. I had thought I'd need to use the AC a lot though, I used it all summer here last year.

That fog looks scary! Geez, I'm surprised anybody can see to drive in that. Is that everyday in the winter?

 

[eloder]

The Kia Soul EV sounds interesting. Unfortunately, Kia is unwilling to sell one to me here in Arizona. I have been looking at new EV's since there is a possibility that my 2011 LEAF will be declared a total loss after being rear-ended. There is not much to choose from if you do not live in California. Leaf is probably still the best choice for my range and usage needs. Besides Nissan and Tesla, the only other options here are Ford Focus (back ordered), Smart (insufficient range), and BMW (less EPA range than Leaf, but may be adequate--will take another look). I will probably stick with Nissan since Tesla is more car and expense than I need and those two companies are the only ones really committed to nationwide EV sales.

Gerry

Smart EDs have hit 100 mile ranges in real-world tests in perfect conditions at city speeds <55mph, and their batteries fare much better through cold weather than Leafs. Highway smart mileage is definitely lower, though not too terrible if your highways are limited to 55. Just like the gas counterpart, the EPA vastly underestimates how they actually do if you drive carefully. (Proud owner of a smart ICE that hits 42 combined mpg lifetime, and hits upper 40s / low 50s on long highway trips - a good 25% higher than EPA estimates on the latter).

I know not everyone likes a smart though, but they're very, very heavily underestimated cars. And they're available nationwide and lease substantially less than a Leaf, though the backorder is pretty vicious for non-CARB states without physical inventory.

I don't really consider the Kia Soul EV worth much of anything, because it's not available nationwide.

 

[electriccarfan]

The Kia Soul EV sounds interesting. Unfortunately, Kia is unwilling to sell one to me here in Arizona. I have been looking at new EV's since there is a possibility that my 2011 LEAF will be declared a total loss after being rear-ended. There is not much to choose from if you do not live in California. Leaf is probably still the best choice for my range and usage needs. Besides Nissan and Tesla, the only other options here are Ford Focus (back ordered), Smart (insufficient range), and BMW (less EPA range than Leaf, but may be adequate--will take another look). I will probably stick with Nissan since Tesla is more car and expense than I need and those two companies are the only ones really committed to nationwide EV sales.

Gerry

Smart EDs have hit 100 mile ranges in real-world tests in perfect conditions at city speeds <55mph, and their batteries fare much better through cold weather than Leafs. Highway smart mileage is definitely lower, though not too terrible if your highways are limited to 55. Just like the gas counterpart, the EPA vastly underestimates how they actually do if you drive carefully. (Proud owner of a smart ICE that hits 42 combined mpg lifetime, and hits upper 40s / low 50s on long highway trips - a good 25% higher than EPA estimates on the latter).

I know not everyone likes a smart though, but they're very, very heavily underestimated cars. And they're available nationwide and lease substantially less than a Leaf, though the backorder is pretty vicious for non-CARB states without physical inventory.

I don't really consider the Kia Soul EV worth much of anything, because it's not available nationwide.

Back in 2008 when the ICE Smart Car came to the USA, I really like it and I had thought about getting one. I had to hold off on getting anything for a few years and so I never bought anything. Once Nissan offered generous rebates, I jumped on the Leaf. But, I always thought the Smart Car were cool. I never drive with more than 1 passenger (even now), and 95% of the time Its just me driving alone. I was a little disappointed with the 33 MPG/40 HWY though, since it seemed it should have been higher. And, you can't used 87 grade fuel, only 89 or 91 (as required to maintain optimal efficiancy).

 

[TimLee]

Can't you drive over into California, buy one, and drive it back to Arizona?

Yes.
But how are you going to get it serviced.
Read the threads about the LEAF in WV, where dealer has not maintained LEAF certification, to see how big a mess no service can be.

 

[electriccarfan]

Can't you drive over into California, buy one, and drive it back to Arizona?

Yes.
But how are you going to get it serviced.
Read the threads about the LEAF in WV, where dealer has not maintained LEAF certification, to see how big a mess no service can be.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. My Nissan dealer has been Leaf certified for many years so that hadn't occurred to me. I've actually read most all of the thread and its a shame. Nissan should require every dealership to keep up the certifications on Leaf or they shouldn't be allowed to do any business (EV or ICE).

I would assume that there shouldn't be much of anything wrong with the Soul EV since its an EV afterall. There's really nothing to go wrong, no mechanical parts to wear down. I've driven my 2014 Leaf since May (5,500 Miles) and I haven't even had a hiccup from it. There's been nothing to speak of.

 

[RonDawg]

I plan on moving to California (Hanford, CA) in April/May. Do they drive fast out there in California? I think that'll take a little getting used to for me. I always do the 60MPH speed limit or 5 above, and I just hold that speed (in normal D mode) all the way there (when I rarely used the expressway).

Yes. "10 over" the posted limit is typically how Californians drive, no matter what the weather. On the rural stretches of I-5 it is not unusual for people to be doing 85 or more even though the posted limit is 70.

 

[keydiver]

You'd think Nissan would've made all the battery packs the Hot Weather pack.

There is no such thing as a "Hot Weather pack". All 2011-2014 Leafs got the same battery, which degrades faster in hot climates. Although some speculate that the 2013 and 2014 Leafs have a tweaked chemistry that may also be more heat resistant, I am reserving judgment until we see some data from Tuscon/Pheonix after 1 1/2 years or more. All 2015 Leafs have the "Lizard Battery", as well as all battery replacements since ~July 2014, which Nissan has assured us will last much longer in hotter states.

 

[TomT]

Kind of like all the other "assurances" we got from Nissan in the past... :lol:

which Nissan has assured us will last much longer in hotter states.