Gulf Oil Spill Worse Than Initially Reported

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George Bush received unending criticism for taking an extra day or so to figure out what to do after Katrina; a month into this disaster all Obama has done is hold his breath and stomp his feet after yukking it up at a black tie dinner, and people are only now starting to question his leadership. Meanwhile those in his administration are effectively preempting legislative and supreme court authority by deciding for themselves what laws are appropriate to enforce. It's scary just how unprincipled and weak he is, especially when you think about situations like what is going on with North Korea. We'll be lucky if we get through the next three years without him getting us all killed.

Bottom line the La governor should direct them get those dredges out there before it's too late. Waiting for permission or support from Washington doesn't solve local problems, just as the people of Arizona have learned.

But I guess this is getting afield of discussions of the Nissan Leaf :)
 
Sorry, guys. In spite of some of today's press, one doesn't have to Google for long to see that the President was informed immediately and that the response was also immediate.

US Government Response Timeline

This is an overview of the first roughly day and a half. At this point, the Deepwater Horizon hadn't yet sunk:

NIGHT OF TUESDAY, APRIL 20
Search and Rescue
The U.S. government response to the BP Oil Spill began immediately after the explosion on the night of April 20 as an emergency search-and-rescue mission. At approximately 10:30 p.m. that night, notification was received that Mobile Offshore Drilling Unit (MODU) Deepwater Horizon had exploded and was on fire. The rig was located 45 miles southeast of Venice, La.
Establish Command Center to Address Potential Environmental Impacts
Concurrently, the administration also quickly establishes a command center on the Gulf Coast to address the potential environmental impact of the event and to coordinate with all state and local governments. Since this point, the administration has continuously anticipated and planned for a worst-case scenario.
NOAA Mobilizes to Provide Trajectory Support
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) mobilizes within three hours of the explosion and started to provide trajectory support and coordinated scientific weather and biological response services. The NOAA weather forecast office in Slidell, La., also provided weather information to the Coast Guard at its request shortly after the explosion to support initial search-and-rescue operations.
The President is Alerted
The President is alerted to the event and he begins actively monitoring the situation. At the time, it was known that 126 people were on the rig when the explosion occurred.
Assets Deployed To Date
Total response vessels: Two Coast Guard cutters
Total response aircraft: Four helicopters and one rescue plane
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 21
Deputy Secretary of Interior David Hayes is Deployed to the Gulf Coast
The morning after the explosion, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar deployed Deputy Secretary David J. Hayes to the Gulf Coast to assist with coordination and response to the event, and provide hourly reports to Secretary Salazar and other administration officials.
Interagency Coordination Begins Across the Government, Federal On-Scene Coordinator is Named and Regional Response Team is Stood Up
Interagency coordination begins immediately among federal partners—including the Coast Guard; the Departments of Homeland Security (DHS), Commerce (DOC), Interior (DOI); and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)—providing federal assets and overseeing BP’s response. Pursuant to the National Contingency Plan, Rear Admiral Mary Landry was named the Federal On-Scene Coordinator and a Regional Response Team was stood up that included the U.S. Coast Guard, DHS, DOC/NOAA, DOI and the EPA, as well as state and local representatives. The Regional Response Team immediately began developing plans, providing technical advice and access to resources and equipment from its member agencies, and overseeing BP’s response.
The Administration Oversees BP’s Response
The administration begins holding meetings and regular calls with BP leadership to discuss BP’s response effort, as well as federal oversight and support, and urged BP to leverage additional assets to help respond to this event.
Interagency Joint DHS-DOI Investigation Begins
Secretary Salazar and Secretary Napolitano direct that a joint investigation begin into the cause of the event. The investigation, jointly led by the U.S. Coast Guard and the Minerals Management Service (MMS), are given subpoena power, will hold public hearings, and call witnesses. MMS and USCG begin interviewing rig personnel.
National Park Service Plans Contingencies to Protect Vulnerable Parks Along Gulf Coast
The National Parks Service (NPS) Spill Response Coordinator, Regional Emergency Services Coordinator, and Deputy Chief of Emergency Services begin strategic planning of contingencies to protect potentially vulnerable national parks along the Gulf Coast.
MMS Establishes Ops Center and Deploys Staff to BP and Transocean Command Posts
MMS establishes an Emergency Operations Center at its Gulf of Mexico Regional Office in New Orleans, and deployed employees to the BP Incident Command Post (ICP) and the Transocean ICP in Houston.
NOAA Selects Scientific Support Coordinator and Deploys Him to USCG Command Post
NOAA Environmental Scientist Charlie Henry arrive on site at the Coast Guard’s Command Post in Morgan City, La., to serve as NOAA’s Scientific Support Coordinator. NOAA issued the initial trajectory advice and began providing them twice daily.
The President is Briefed
The President monitors the response and is briefed throughout the day by the White House Situation Room
Search and Rescue Continues
Of the 126 total people on the rig at the time of the event, 115 crew members were accounted for. The Coast Guard continued to actively search for all 11 individuals still missing through the night, with multiple units, vessels and aircraft responding.
Daily Response On-Site Press Briefing Begins
The first in a daily series of press briefings was conducted between the Minerals Management Service (MMS), the Coast Guard, BP and Transocean.
Assets Deployed To Date
Total response vessels: Two Coast Guard cutters
Total response aircraft: Four helicopters and one rescue plane

Any newscaster, blogger, or extremist talking head that's trying to spin up discontent today thru revisionist history is only serving themselves.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
George Bush received unending criticism for taking an extra day or so to figure out what to do after Katrina...

LOL. You can't use what I wrote to segway into some kind of Obama hatefest.

Even with all this am I glad Bush Jr is not in the white house !!!!

Atleast with Obama we didn't have to see him complementing the BP CEO a couple days after the spill saying "Tony, you're doing a heck of a job".
 
AndyH said:
This is an overview of the first roughly day and a half. At this point, the Deepwater Horizon hadn't yet sunk:
...
Any newscaster, blogger, or extremist talking head that's trying to spin up discontent today thru revisionist history is only serving themselves.

Congratulations, Andy, you succeeded in listing two pages of activities by the administration and various government agencies, all of which has produced zero benefit in mitigating the disaster.
 
What do you expect? Really?! Mission one was search and rescue and the government response was immediate!

Maybe you can tell me which US Government agency has deep water drilling equipment?

BP drilled the holes, screwed up, and had a blow-out. They followed (or disregarded) the rules in place at the time and that one other BP rig and MANY other rigs are/were using.

Like these:

gulfrigs.jpg

gulfrigs2.jpg


In spite of what we're recognizing as 'lobbying-induced-rules-relaxation' that became some of the weak links in the chain of events leading up to this disaster, any attempt to pin blame on this disaster on ANY single member of the government is seriously misplaced.

I was part of the government's 'disaster response force' for 21 years, and was part of the US Transportation Command for about 9 years. When you saw the C130s dropping dispersants over the Gulf, or the Coast Guard deploy air- and surface craft, or when you see the military members in the video from the Gulf command post video, or the Army personnel building new beaches and dams to protect the inner waterways, you see folks put in place under order of the President.

Anyone - and I mean ANYONE (Rush and Beck included) - that suggests that the 'Government' took too long to respond either doesn't have a clue what they're talking about, is actively working to attack the current administration for political reasons, or drank the cool-aid from those in the first two categories.

Sorry LTLFT - my comments are absolutely not personal and not political. I was 'inside' the system for a long time before retiring, voted Republican for a long time, and was a ditto-head for a long time. But the crap being fed to the American public disguised as 'news' or 'fair and balanced' has very, very little to do with 'reality'. It's designed to make money for the talking head and to anger people so they stay tuned - not to help or educate.

(To prove this for yourself, simply watch a news report from CNN, Fox, and any other news agency on the same event and see what is said in each report - and what is not said.)

Andy
 
A few things to keep in mind with all this happening
- BP is doing all it can to stop the flow
- Every person involved now is doing all they can
- It is damn difficult to stop the flow. None of the wild wells in deep ocean have been stopped with anything other than a relief well, ever (once the BOP failed)
- Think Appollo 13 ... rather than Katrina
- We shouldn't allow ocean drilling until absolute safety can be assured - along with multiple ways to stop the oil if the well goes wild.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-na-oil-spill-houston-20100522,0,2524963.story

At BP's Houston offices, hundreds of scientists are at work on the Gulf of Mexico spill. They have an unlimited budget, an international team of the sharpest minds in modern engineering — and they have no time.
...
"It's like trying to do an operation on the moon," said Thomas Bickel, deputy chief engineer at Sandia and a member of Chu's team. "It's the same complexity. It's the same difficulty. And you don't have the luxury of being in an academic environment where you can work on it for three years. Everybody's very aware of that pressure."
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Thanks for pointing that out. I just made a donation as well. RL is an idiot.


I completely disagree. I think he's a borderline genius. He knows just what to say and how to say it to keep his bajillions of dollars flowing in from his listeners. THEY are the idiots.
:lol:
 
Jimmydreams said:
I completely disagree. I think he's a borderline genius. He knows just what to say and how to say it to keep his bajillions of dollars flowing in from his listeners. THEY are the idiots.
:lol:

Amen! :lol:
 
Jimmydreams said:
I completely disagree. I think he's a borderline genius. He knows just what to say and how to say it to keep his bajillions of dollars flowing in from his listeners. THEY are the idiots.
:lol:

Not just that. I can't beleive the illegal drugs stuff didn't drown him.
 
evnow said:
Not just that. I can't beleive the illegal drugs stuff didn't drown him.

I'm not. The general public lets their elected officials and celebrities get away with murder and sees nothing wrong with hypocritical behavior. How many politicians have been caught having affairs while married yet are still allowed to dictate morality? The loudest anti-gay opponents always are found with male prostitutes, etc. but that doesn't always sink them. Rush is no different. His audience wants to believe every nugget of wisdom he spews at them, so they easily overlook his drug addiction.

If ours was a just society, Barry Bonds would NEVER be considered for the Hall of Fame. Rush would be doing AM drive in some mini-market somewhere with no listeners to pay for his cochlear implants. And even Bill Clinton would have been laughed off the worlds stage for being a complete stooge when it comes to oral satisfaction.

But ours is an instant gratification society with a memory than can only be measured in nanoseconds. :(
 
evnow said:
A few things to keep in mind with all this happening
- BP is doing all it can to stop the flow
- Every person involved now is doing all they can
- It is damn difficult to stop the flow. None of the wild wells in deep ocean have been stopped with anything other than a relief well, ever (once the BOP failed)
- Think Appollo 13 ... rather than Katrina
- We shouldn't allow ocean drilling until absolute safety can be assured - along with multiple ways to stop the oil if the well goes wild.

"The superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid using his superior skills."

BP blew the judgement part and now - because they failed - they get to try to look dashing as they try to save the world. There are many thousands of rigs in the Gulf and they've somehow managed to drill safely in spite of the relative friendliness of MMS or the breaks their money and lobbyists got them.

BP failed to identify and break the chain of events that led to the disaster.

One other bit that keeps catching my attention. Remember Congressman Markey's chat with the head of BP - when they 'discussed' BP's certification that they could handle 250,000 barrels a day worst case? Look at all the press reports for the past week - nearly every one of them reminds us that they are deeper than normal...they've never tried this before...it might not work because we're so deep... Nice spin attempt. Do they really think that we should give them extra points because they basically lied about their ability to work at this depth?

evnow said:
- We shouldn't allow ocean drilling until absolute safety can be assured - along with multiple ways to stop the oil if the well goes wild

I think we should stop all drilling until the complete system is reviewed and safety protocols are put in place and tested. Regardless, I think BP should be escorted out of the Gulf and given a 'time out' of US waters for...maybe...one month for every barrel they released?
 
AndyH said:
Look at all the press reports for the past week - nearly every one of them reminds us that they are deeper than normal...they've never tried this before...it might not work because we're so deep... Nice spin attempt. Do they really think that we should give them extra points because they basically lied about their ability to work at this depth?

Some people seem to think if only they wanted they can stop the flow - just not the case.

The main take away should be - offshore drilling isn't safe. We don't have the technology to make it safe enough.
 
evnow said:
Some people seem to think if only they wanted they can stop the flow - just not the case.

The main take away should be - offshore drilling isn't safe. We don't have the technology to make it safe enough.

And by that you mean we shouldn't be doing it?
 
evnow said:
Some people seem to think if only they wanted they can stop the flow - just not the case.

The main take away should be - offshore drilling isn't safe. We don't have the technology to make it safe enough.

Even bomb disposal folks go into the task with the understanding that they will probably walk away after the task. How can a company tell a country that they can successfully complete the task, then try to tell us that they can't after they screw it up? I think that's a more significant take away.

evnow - do you still think they couldn't stop the flow if they had drilled a relief well from the start? If not, why not?

Because Chevron started drilling a deeper well off Newfoundland and claims they can do it safely even without a relief well. BP is pushing Canada to ease relief-well requirements for Arctic drilling as well. Chevron appears to be suggesting that it's all ok - they have two ships standing by that can drill relief wells if there's a blow-out...
 
AndyH said:
evnow - do you still think they couldn't stop the flow if they had drilled a relief well from the start? If not, why not?

With a relief well in place, they would have probably stopped the flow within a week or so. If only one relief well had been dug - the most likely case - there is a possibility that it won't work - sometimes you need more than one. Currently they are drilling two wells. In Montara spill it took them 5 attempts to intercept the original well and stop it.

Because Chevron started drilling a deeper well off Newfoundland and claims they can do it safely even without a relief well. BP is pushing Canada to ease relief-well requirements for Arctic drilling as well. Chevron appears to be suggesting that it's all ok - they have two ships standing by that can drill relief wells if there's a blow-out...

Ofcource, when things work - they work. Afterall there wasn't a blowout in GOM in 40 years. They definitely shouldn't allow drilling without a relief well. Moreover they need to take another look at BOP, Cementing & other stuff. I don't think the problems are just with BP - afterall everyone uses Transocean. This is an industrywide problem.

Last year's Timor sea well blow out in Australia took months to plug - using a relief well dug after the blowout happened. Infact the enquiry commission on that well blowout has now delayed their report to see what happens in GOM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montara_oil_spill
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/us/03montara.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
 
Well, the killer bee strain was not supposed to escape either, and "they" never did "fix" that "leak".

But, we keep experimenting with killer virus, super-toxic chemicals, overwhelimg bombs, massive armmed forces, etc.

It seems that humanoids have a significant death wish?

And, if they cannot get what they want, they are fully prepared to kill off everyone (else).

With such an unusually good planet, it is a shame that it is being "consumed" with so little thought, or guilt.
 
evnow said:
With a relief well in place, they would have probably stopped the flow within a week or so. If only one relief well had been dug - the most likely case - there is a possibility that it won't work - sometimes you need more than one. Currently they are drilling two wells. In Montara spill it took them 5 attempts to intercept the original well and stop it.

Great. Five attempts and in a lot less water. Where do I sign - I'll take three! :?

Thanks!
 
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