Gulf Oil Spill Worse Than Initially Reported

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LTLFTcomposite said:
Can anyone comment, why wasn't this "top kill" thing (or the "junk shot") attempted sooner? Were they holding out hope they could save the well? Except for the problems with the leak it does look like they hit a good spot.

It is possible they were not sure BOP will can withstand the pressures involved. Apparently Obama team got a gamma ray scan of BOP done and then they figured out they can try to top kill. Top Kill is riskier than the containment dome they tried earlier - it can result in worse spill if things don't go as planned.
 
Boone saw his shadow and predicts 38 more days of fun...

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/05/27/lkl.t.boone.pickens.on.top.kill.cnn

Says topkill isn't going to work because they can't circulate the mud. The mud's got to be circulating in the hole to work...

Larry King: How long is this going to go on?
TBP: I'd betcha we'll be here talking 38 days from now...We've got a long way to go on this unless we get lucky...The odds are against you on everything you're doing except the relief well...The relief well is the answer.
 
AndyH said:
Says topkill isn't going to work because they can't circulate the mud. The mud's got to be circulating in the hole to work...

That is not correct. Basically they need to neutralize the pressure in the well even when pumping is stopped. For that they need to plug bop - and are trying junk shot. I think the chances are probably even or a little less ...
 
Two things around this spill that don't make sense to me. The first is this topkill plan.

Supposedly the BOP at least partially closed, so there's some resistance to flow. I would also expect something of a venturi effect creating low pressure thru the BOP. If the drilling mud is being injected into the BOP, and the diagrams show that it's being injected into the BOP and not below it, then I would expect the drilling mud to be simply mixed with the stream of gas and crude and be ejected thru the pipe - not forced downward against the flow and pressure. Something must be happening, though - some of the mud must be running down the well if BP stopped injecting and the gushing material was still brown and not black.

The second is the booming/containment plan. It appears that the number 1 mission of the 'oil defense crew' was to protect the islands and wetlands - and they used exclusion boom techniques to 'circle the wagons.' And we know that BP started using dispersants pretty early into the spill to kill the slick. Wouldn't it have been better to put a couple of loops of boom around the bloody well site and try to contain the oil there? The dispersants were sold as a way to keep the slick away from shore - but appear to simply have made the oil completely boom-proof. Next time around (I can't believe I typed that...) they should run containment circles around the slick and leave the dispersant storage locked up. That should make the oil easier to vacuum up - but harder to hide...

Sanity check please?
 
Andy I haven't seen a good picture of what is going on here that explains this. Near as I can tell the BOP is the equivalent of a garden hose nozzle that is stuck in the open position. The pumping of the mud is being done through a "side port", but if you drilled a hole in the side of that hose nozzle and forced stuff into the hole I would expect it to just be ejected in the stream as you pointed out. While the mud is heavier than the water and the oil, it isn't that much heavier and the flow would overcome gravity.

I wish the news would dig into some of these details a little more and report what is going on rather than what the president's kids have to say about it.
 
AndyH said:
If the drilling mud is being injected into the BOP, and the diagrams show that it's being injected into the BOP and not below it, then I would expect the drilling mud to be simply mixed with the stream of gas and crude and be ejected thru the pipe - not forced downward against the flow and pressure

Right. The BOP has some constrictions that reduce flow upwards - and that helps push the mud down. With this junk shot the idea is to block the top of the BOP - thus helping more mud to flow down.

Coast gaurd claims it is successful, BP is saying wait ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37394541/ns/gulf_oil_spill/
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
While the mud is heavier than the water and the oil, it isn't that much heavier and the flow would overcome gravity.

Mud is about twice as heavy as water - and they pump it at very high pressure - 10,000 psi or more (depending on what they think BOP can withstand).
 
780px-Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill_-_May_24%2C_2010.jpg
 
Looking at that picture would make me feel guilty if thought any of the oil they were producing there was to support my lifestyle. Fortunately the oil I use all comes from somewhere else so my conscience is clear.
 
AndyH said:
Have you ever been on the Gulf or on that shore?

I assume your question was directed at me. Not a lot. I spent time doing volunteer construction work in the Long Beach/Gulfport MS area after Katrina. We also did some RV camping on the beach in the Destin FL area. Some beautiful areas; even if they haven't been severely impacted yet it seems inevitable.

What has happened here is totally unacceptable.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Looking at that picture would make me feel guilty if thought any of the oil they were producing there was to support my lifestyle. Fortunately the oil I use all comes from somewhere else so my conscience is clear.

Oil is "fungable", it is on ALL of us, doesn't matter where it comes from, it's all the same product, and we are all responsible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility
 
AndyH said:
CNN is reporting that topkill has failed.

Yep, now they say they are gong to try and cut off the riser pipe and try a containment dome, a fairly risky move, they could make it even worse.

I wonder if they could drop a new 20" (or larger) pipe from a new platform/rig they move into place over the well, and connect / seat over the damaged riser, pushing the oil to the surface where they can pump it into tankers until the relief well is drilled to eventually plug it... and yes, I know the pipe will be nearly a mile long, how would it be achored...
 
mitch672 said:
I wonder if they could drop a new 20" (or larger) pipe ...

This is what they are trying to do with LMRP. BOP was too badly damaged for top kill + junk shot to work.

All this should give a pause to people who think science and technology can solve all the problems in no time.
 
evnow said:
mitch672 said:
I wonder if they could drop a new 20" (or larger) pipe ...

This is what they are trying to do with LMRP. BOP was too badly damaged for top kill + junk shot to work.

All this should give a pause to people who think science and technology can solve all the problems in no time.

If we only had a reallife "superman", but we don't.

It's possible the pocket they hit could run out of oil/gas before the relief well is drilled.
wouldn't that be a pisser.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/weekinreview/30rosenthal.html

Americans have long had an unswerving belief that technology will save us — it is the cavalry coming over the hill, just as we are about to lose the battle. And yet, as Americans watched scientists struggle to plug the undersea well over the past month, it became apparent that our great belief in technology was perhaps misplaced.
 
Their new plan sounds a little bit like something I thought of immediately after the pipe broke. I never mentioned it anyone, assuming it was too naive, and knowing I had zero experience in this sort of thing.

I was thinking of attaching a large collar at the base of the BOP (two pieces bolted together), with heavy duty steel rods bolted to it and going up to and through holes in a thick steel plate. The rods would be threaded, with nuts above the plate to hold them in place. The holes in the collar and plate would be large enough to allow some play. Once the whole contraption was in place, with the edge of the steel plate resting against the side of the riser pipe, I hoped the submersibles would have some means of sawing off the pipe (it appears they do). If they cut it just below the plate they should then be able to push the plate in place over it and tighten the nuts.

If the submersibles aren't capable of tightening the nuts, a turnbuckle could be built into each rod. Surely they could twist those some way.

This might leak a bit if the end of the sawed off pipe wasn't exactly flat, and the leak might get worse over time if the collar or plate warped, and of course given long enough the whole thing would rust enough that the nuts would slip off. But the idea would be to stop most of the flow until the relief drilling could be completed.
 
planet4ever said:
... I hoped the submersibles would have some means of sawing off the pipe (it appears they do). If they cut it just below the plate they should then be able to push the plate in place over it and tighten the nuts.

This is essentially like replacing the current BOP with a new working BOP. If the current LMRP doesn't work, this is the next option.

They are afraid of just trying to close the pipe at the top. Because of high pressure the well casing can repure and the oil will start seeping through the soft sea floor around the raiser.
 
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