Heating the Nissan Leaf (2013...S base model)

[Gearscout]

I've been underwhelmed by the heating unit in the LEAF.

OK, the steering wheel heater and the seat heaters work, don't drain much power, and add a lot of comfort.

But switching on the 'Heat' in my 2013 LEAF S results in a devastating loss of battery and, frankly, does NOT warm the cabin.

I really wonder why they didn't install a butane/propane type heater in the vehicle that could take advantage of the existing blower etc. to warm up the vehicle. I live in Georgia and while the temperatures dipped down into the 20's F this last week, it can hardly be compared to the plight of people up in the Northeast.

I'm going to pull out my catalytic heater (Coleman) used to warm up my camping tents and see if that's a better solution. It's not especially effective in a tent, but maybe in the closed environment of the LEAF -- back in the cargo area with the seats folded down -- it could help. I'll leave a window or two cracked to ensure there's plenty of air.

http://www.coleman.com/product/5053A751#.UplbTmRDsyw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey, LEAF owners in NY, New England...Michigan and Chicago...what are you doing to keep warm?

 

[chortle]

You live in Georgia!, Please, you don't even know what cold is!!!!

I thought you 13ers had it all figured out with the fancy new "Heat Pump" plan.

I guess not.

But to answer your question, for me, I just use the heater, which works just fine but I shorten my trips.

When I bought my Leaf I new I'd only use it for a limited amount in winter, I go to Florida, when I'm sick of the cold and the Leaf stays in the garage.

Signed Michigan

 

[Gearscout]

Bill,

I know, I know...a Georgian complaining about the cold is pretty lame. ( Born in Illinois, grew up in Colorado...) I left mine connected to L2 this morning, pressed the start button twice, turned on the heat and never got the car warm in 20 minutes. I've used the pre-heat Climate Control with some success, but think we're missing the boat...or the dog sled!

With a camp gas style plug-in heater module, the LEAF could have a real heater that didn't drain the battery...the electric solution isn't efficient, IMHO. I don't even know if my base-level LEAF S has the 'enhanced' heat pump. But heat pumps don't work well below 32F, or something close to that, I've been told.

You're right, Key West will solve the problem! ;-) I'm ready.

 

[mbender]

Even though I've got nothing to complain about (weather-wise!) here in CA, I've been underwhelmed with the cabin heater as well. Admittedly, I haven't experienced the 2013 heat-pump, but am not surprised that it isn't that much better.

I suspect that they didn't add a butane or propane heater to the leaf for environmental (cred) reasons, if not CARB/ZEV credits. I'm sure it would affect those calculations somehow, although "almost nothing" beats propane for heating.

Heating is difficult and expensive to do with electricity and batteries. I'm not sure what a good solution is.

 

[greengate]

I've been underwhelmed by the heating unit in the LEAF.

OK, the steering wheel heater and the seat heaters work, don't drain much power, and add a lot of comfort.

But switching on the 'Heat' in my 2013 LEAF S results in a devastating loss of battery and, frankly, does NOT warm the cabin.

I really wonder why they didn't install a butane/propane type heater in the vehicle that could take advantage of the existing blower etc. to warm up the vehicle. I live in Georgia and while the temperatures dipped down into the 20's F this last week, it can hardly be compared to the plight of people up in the Northeast.

I'm going to pull out my catalytic heater (Coleman) used to warm up my camping tents and see if that's a better solution. It's not especially effective in a tent, but maybe in the closed environment of the LEAF -- back in the cargo area with the seats folded down -- it could help. I'll leave a window or two cracked to ensure there's plenty of air.

http://www.coleman.com/product/5053A751#.UplbTmRDsyw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey, LEAF owners in NY, New England...Michigan and Chicago...what are you doing to keep warm?

I'm wondering if there might be something wrong with your unit.

I am in the Chicago area and the last few days it has been in the low 20's.

Mine heats up quickly and only knocks 10 miles off the range for the first few miles. But then I turn it down to 69 and turn it off sometimes and the 10 miles I have lost reappear.

So it doesn't seem to be to take that big of a hit off the battery supply or the range. Perhaps 20% if one were to have all heating systems on all of the time. If one manages them, perhaps no more than 10%.

 

[Gearscout]

Thanks for your notes MBender!

Greeengate, as the temperatures dropped here this week, I have been talking with a number of LEAF owners at my office (there are 5 of us) who all seem to be reporting the same drop in miles. OK, the Guess-O-Meter is far from perfect, but we're not getting back something like 12-16 miles range after firing up the heating units...even briefly. All vehicles are '13.

One of my friends needs a minimum of about 60 miles. He just wears a coat! (..and uses the steering wheel heater.) There is a fear of "range disappear" in the cold air right now. I charge to 80% and make a 42 mile roundtrip. I figure 60 is plenty of pad.

Thanksgiving night, I left a neighbor's house and did, essentially, that run. 42 miles. I had more than 60 when I left. At the end of the roundtrip, I pulled into the driveway with ----- showing on the G-O-M. I made it. LEAF Spy showed I had a couple more miles to go. That's the closest I've come and perhaps it was because I fired up the heater for a few minutes at the start of the run. But I warned everyone on board I would have to shut it down shortly after takeoff...and I did.

We only get a few bouts of cold each winter down here...but it is pointing out to many of us that the LEAF isn't a cold weather warrior.

Cheers...

 

[vsaphill]

I never use the leaf heater, once my lease is up and I purchase the car I will do the heater mod to run the heater off the 12 volt battery but for now I use the Harbor Freight 12 Volt Auto Heater $9.99 with $25% off coupon
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-auto-heater-defroster-with-light-60525.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Gearscout]

I never use the leaf heater, once my lease is up and I purchase the car I will do the heater mod to run the heater off the 12 volt battery but for now I use the Harbor Freight 12 Volt Auto Heater $9.99 with $25% off coupon
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-auto-heater-defroster-with-light-60525.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm. Interesting. I've got a Harbor Freight nearly across the street from where the Drone Hit Me! (I'm not insinuating anything.) Warm is warm.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I left mine connected to L2 this morning, pressed the start button twice, turned on the heat and never got the car warm in 20 minutes. I've used the pre-heat Climate Control with some success, but think we're missing the boat...or the dog sled!

If you want to get real heat, I'm pretty sure that you have to have your foot on the brake and actually "start" the car, rather than just turn it on. This applies to the SV model, and I'll bet it applies to the S as well. The preheat doesn't require that you do this, so I suggest you practice using that feature.

 

[Gearscout]

LeftieBiker,

Well, I think you nailed it. When it was on "Pre-heat" it seemed to work. But trying to manually fire up the LEAF to warm itself did NOT work by bringing the system "half-alive." The air blew COLD the entire time. The windshield did not de-frost.

But at least it wasn't pulling any kWh.

Is there ANY way to keep the car plugged in so you can MANUALLY run heating etc.?

I've only got 4400 miles on this LEAF which makes me a Newbie.

Thanks!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Is there ANY way to keep the car plugged in so you can MANUALLY run heating etc.?

I'm not certain what you mean. You can leave it plugged in overnight without killing the accessory battery. You can also use the timers - I think, as I'm not familiar with the S - to charge to 80% and then, after that, run the climate control before you need it. Is that what you meant?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

you simply want a heater that heats like your ICE did when it wasted 80% of the gas you put in the tank. its like using a woodstove to heat the house then opening the front door when it got too hot (ya, true story seen it done dozens of times!) fact is, the heater works and works well enough.

if you want to "make it Summer" its gonna cost you. you might be better to wear a heavier coat.

now, this response may seem harsh and each one of us has our own requirements for personal comfort so you can take it as a personal insult or take it for what it is.

now if you want a heater that sucked, I had a 64 VW that had a tube missing (didnt know anything about the tube) that apparently controlled the heater, so for heat all i got was a very light warm (on good days) flow of air. this was in MI. drove that thing thru 2 winters and never complained but for $50 and less than $100 to get it running? i wasn't complaining!

 

[Gearscout]

I'm not certain what you mean. You can leave it plugged in overnight without killing the accessory battery. You can also use the timers - I think, as I'm not familiar with the S - to charge to 80% and then, after that, run the climate control before you need it. Is that what you meant?

I mean, not setting the timers, can I get in the vehicle and turn on heater, steering wheel heater, seat heater etc. after letting the car charge all night?

I had a problem with Climate Control, got the software update, and haven't used it since. It probably would work, but often, I don't really know when I'm set for takeoff in the mornings.

BOTTOM LINE:

So, if I leave it plugged in after charging, is there a way I can enable it to heat up while USING the connected 240/120v EVSE?

 

[Gearscout]

you simply want a heater that heats like your ICE did when it wasted 80% of the gas you put in the tank. its like using a woodstove to heat the house then opening the front door when it got too hot (ya, true story seen it done dozens of times!) fact is, the heater works and works well enough.

if you want to "make it Summer" its gonna cost you. you might be better to wear a heavier coat.

now, this response may seem harsh and each one of us has our own requirements for personal comfort so you can take it as a personal insult or take it for what it is.

now if you want a heater that sucked, I had a 64 VW that had a tube missing (didnt know anything about the tube) that apparently controlled the heater, so for heat all i got was a very light warm (on good days) flow of air. this was in MI. drove that thing thru 2 winters and never complained but for $50 and less than $100 to get it running? i wasn't complaining!

Sadly, Dave, that's EXACTLY what I WANT!!!

And, Dave, can you find me a refrigerator that really works? I mean, one where you can close the door and the LIGHT STAYS ON! ??? ;-)

 

[LeftieBiker]

The SV lets you do that, and I'd be surprised if the S didn't as well. The EVSE is supposed to be ready to provide power whenever it's plugged in. I get usable heat using it even with 120 volt charging. The SV lets you decide whether the climate control timer or the charge timer gets priority, but I don't know how it works with the S, so I suggest you only count on using the EVSE (charge cable) to pre-heat if the car is finished charging. One thing to remember, though: if you leave it plugged in for days on end, especially in cold weather, you are risking a dead 12 volt accessory battery, which would render the car "dead" as well, until it's revived. The charging system 'wakes up' regularly while it's plugged in, to check the status of the connection, and that runs the 12 volt battery down. As I wrote earlier, though, overnight isn't a problem, especially if most of that time is spent charging.

 

[Gearscout]

LeftieBiker,

I had it plugged in this morning (240v) and did the double punch to the Start button. Systems came on, but there was blower but no heat. Seat warmer worked. Steering wheel warmer worked. LEAF Spy reported no drain on batteries, so it was getting energy from the mains.

But there wasn't any heat.

Those more knowledgeable may understand the reasons for this. Maybe the heating unit doesn't fire up unless it is programmed or the car is actually in moving mode.

Thank You for your thoughts, LeftieBiker!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

you simply want a heater that heats like your ICE did when it wasted 80% of the gas you put in the tank. its like using a woodstove to heat the house then opening the front door when it got too hot (ya, true story seen it done dozens of times!) fact is, the heater works and works well enough.

if you want to "make it Summer" its gonna cost you. you might be better to wear a heavier coat.

now, this response may seem harsh and each one of us has our own requirements for personal comfort so you can take it as a personal insult or take it for what it is.

now if you want a heater that sucked, I had a 64 VW that had a tube missing (didnt know anything about the tube) that apparently controlled the heater, so for heat all i got was a very light warm (on good days) flow of air. this was in MI. drove that thing thru 2 winters and never complained but for $50 and less than $100 to get it running? i wasn't complaining!

Sadly, Dave, that's EXACTLY what I WANT!!!

And, Dave, can you find me a refrigerator that really works? I mean, one where you can close the door and the LIGHT STAYS ON! ??? ;-)

well, set the heaters to MAX temp and lower the fan speed to half, it gets pretty warm and as long as you aren't going far...

 

[Gearscout]

Dave,

Thanks. That's solid but as you note, costly in terms of battery usage. My issue this morning was that even setting the temp at 85 and pushing the blower, nothing close to warm emerged. That may be because I'm trying to do something not "allowed." The Climate Control Timer wasn't set. I just tried to force the LEAF to warm up "manually."

EDIT: To be clear, I am trying to do this while L2 connected...so it DOES NOT DRAIN THE BATTERIES!

It IS a different technology and we all have to advance. Love your view of the Franklin stove enthusiasts opening the front doors...I've BEEN there!

The line about the refrigerator is stolen from "Firesign Theatre."

http://firesigntheatre.com/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They're the same ones that came up with "If you lived here, you'd be home by now!"

 

[LeftieBiker]

I had it plugged in this morning (240v) and did the double punch to the Start button. Systems came on, but there was blower but no heat. Seat warmer worked. Steering wheel warmer worked. LEAF Spy reported no drain on batteries, so it was getting energy from the mains.

But there wasn't any heat.

I thought that we'd established that your foot wasn't on the brake when you 'started' the car...? If not, that's likely the problem.

 

[stjohnh]

The heater runs on 400 volts. When the car is in "ON" mode (double press the start button with foot off brake) and the charge cable is plugged in, only the 12 volt system is turned on-- UNLESS the car is actually charging (ie the blue lights on the dash are flashing).

So, in the typical situation where you plug in at night, when you get up in the morning the car is charged to 80%, and if you manually try to pre-heat the car, the climate controls will light up (the control unit runs on 12volts), the fan (12volt) will blow, but you get NO heat (no 400 volts available, since the car is "fully charged").

If you have an SV/SL (which the OP doesn't have), you can just use carwings to pre-heat, which will also start charging (turns on the 400 volt system).

For the S, you can trick the system to pre-heat manually by:
(press timer override first only if you have been using the charge timer)
Unplugging the car
Plug car back in and quickly doing the double press start button, and quickly turning on the heat.

You will usually have about 30 seconds during which the car starts to charge before the electronics figures out that the car is fully charged. If you start the heater during that time, it will start heating and the charging circuits will continue to function, keeping the heater on during manual pre-heat.

The climate control timer works in the S, and since I generally want the car warm at 8:15, I set the charge timer to end at 7 a m (for the occasional time I leave early) and the climate control timer to end at 8:10, so most of the time I have a warm car when I leave without having to do the manual pre-heat tricks.