Honda Civic Natural Gas wins 2012 Green Car of the Year Awar

[Adrian]

http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...ar-of-the-year-award-20111117,0,3207674.story

 

[adric22]

http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...ar-of-the-year-award-20111117,0,3207674.story

While I'm very supportive of the CNG movement, I do not understand Honda's business plan with the Civic CNG. Have you seen the sticker price on those things? Being that the car is essentially a regular Civic with the fuel tank being replaced by a CNG tank and probably some computer software changes, why do they charge $10,000 more than a regular civic?

I mean seriously, people complain that EV's are too expensive, but there is a reason they are expensive. The $10K price premium on the CNG makes no sense to me. It is as if they are working with the oil companies so that they can keep the price high to limit demand for the vehicle. I see no reason the vehicle couldn't be produced and sold at the same cost as a regular Civic, starting around $15,000. That would make a very exciting and affordable alternate fuel vehicle for the masses.

 

[charlestonleafer]

The six-judge panel on the Green Car of the Year jury selected the Civic Natural Gas from a field of five contenders, including the Ford Focus Electric, Mitsubishi i, Toyota Prius V and Volkswagen Passat TDI.

Did they forget a car? :evil: I mean, the Focus EV and Mitsubishi I are not even on the road yet??

 

[Stoaty]

Not impressed. The car just substitutes one fossil fuel for another. It doesn't move us toward getting off fossil fuels.

 

[Adrian]

The six-judge panel on the Green Car of the Year jury selected the Civic Natural Gas from a field of five contenders, including the Ford Focus Electric, Mitsubishi i, Toyota Prius V and Volkswagen Passat TDI.

Did they forget a car? :evil: I mean, the Focus EV and Mitsubishi I are not even on the road yet??

I know, not sure how they can justify ignoring the Leaf. As much as I like the Civic Natural Gas (my family has 2), ignoring the Leaf discredits the final choice.

 

[Adrian]

http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...ar-of-the-year-award-20111117,0,3207674.story

While I'm very supportive of the CNG movement, I do not understand Honda's business plan with the Civic CNG. Have you seen the sticker price on those things? Being that the car is essentially a regular Civic with the fuel tank being replaced by a CNG tank and probably some computer software changes, why do they charge $10,000 more than a regular civic?

I mean seriously, people complain that EV's are too expensive, but there is a reason they are expensive. The $10K price premium on the CNG makes no sense to me. It is as if they are working with the oil companies so that they can keep the price high to limit demand for the vehicle. I see no reason the vehicle couldn't be produced and sold at the same cost as a regular Civic, starting around $15,000. That would make a very exciting and affordable alternate fuel vehicle for the masses.

To be fair, the Civic Natural GAs is at least comparable to a Civic LX with auto trans, MSRP $18,655 http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/price.aspx?Model=FB2E5CEW

A fair comparison would actually be the Civic EX, given that the Civic Natural gas now has features that are about the same, MSRP $20,500 http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/price.aspx?Model=FB2F8CJW

 

[davewill]

Not impressed. The car just substitutes one fossil fuel for another. It doesn't move us toward getting off fossil fuels.

I've never understood why they are considered ZEVs, myself. They definitely spew carbon.

 

[evnow]

I've never understood why they are considered ZEVs, myself. They definitely spew carbon.

NG cars are not ZEV. Only H2 fuel cell ones are.

I guess CNG cars would be ATPZEV.

 

[LEAFfan]

Being that the car is essentially a regular Civic with the fuel tank being replaced by a CNG tank and probably some computer software changes, why do they charge $10,000 more than a regular civic?

It isn't a regular Civic. They used to get $4500 extra for a CNG Civic (1998), but I see the premium has risen. The extra costs are the engine which is NOT a converted gasoline engine, but built for CNG only, and the carbon fiber fuel tank. The special tanks are VERY expensive and very strong. The CNG engines are made to last a million miles. Before I sold mine (150K miles), I was able to look inside the engine and there wasn't a speck of carbon! It was so clean, it looked like a brand new engine. However, they do use a natural resource/fossil fuel so I would never buy another one and if you ever use a 'dirty' fuel (oily cng), you may have some major repairs.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

when would they be "zero emission?" because unless they can run without combustible fuel at least a little, they would not qualify for that either. the Prius qualifies because it can and does run on EV power only at times.

these kinds of awards i have failed to place stock in for years. this award is no different.

 

[thankyouOB]

leaf not even among the finalists?

i dont understand.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

once again; nothing of note here. the winner from last year? the Volt i believe. understandable, but this is completely utterly confusing to me. Motortrend (another questionable award) COTY is understandable since they seem to automatically eliminate any previous winner, but AFAIC; the only "green" here is the potential color of the exhaust but then again, i guess we need to define green.

now, is this greener? yes. is it green? no. green is or at least should mean "sustainable". which as we know, if fossil fuels or its derivatives are involved, it is not.

so the title of the award is only to entice and attract the green crowd. to the casual observer, it might mean something, but to a forum that knows better, its simply FUD

 

[KJD]

My guess would be that Honda bought more advertising space in "Green Car Journal" than did Nissan.

Come on people Natural Gas is a finite fossil fuel. My EV runs on renewable solar power.

Contest over.

KJD

 

[Adrian]

My guess would be that Honda bought more advertising space in "Green Car Journal" than did Nissan.

Come on people Natural Gas is a finite fossil fuel. My EV runs on renewable solar power.

Contest over.

KJD

I'll venture a guess here...most people don't own or lease solar panels nor have electricity exclusively from hydro or wind. In CA, the following mix was published: http://www.energy.ca.gov/sb1305/power_content_label.html .

So burning natural gas in an ICE is a little less efficient than burning natural gas to make electricity to power one's EV, but let's please not generalize that somehow one's use of solar panels applies to everyone. Yes, the electricity will get cleaner over time, but this is where we stand today. I don't have solar panels, so the published electricity mix by source applies to me; and based on that, my two CNG Honda Civics are a good choice. Not as good as my Leaf, but better than anyone's Prius or other pure ICE or hybrid.

No matter how one looks at it, The Leaf should have been a finalist, and in my opinion should have won the award. Interesting to look at the panel of judges, surprising they would choose to ignore the Leaf.

"The winner was decided by a panel of judges representing the Sierra Club, Natural Resources Defense Council, Ocean Futures Society and Global Green USA, as well as talk show host Jay Leno and car icon Carroll SThe winner was decided by a panel of judges representing the Sierra Club, Natural Resources Defense Council, Ocean Futures Society and Global Green USA, as well as talk show host Jay Leno and car icon Carroll Shelby."