how do I read the dashboard?

[phjc]

I am a sustainability coordinator at an institution with ~150 employees trying to encourage EV adoption so I'd like to walk the talk without breaking my bank.

I'm looking for an affordable used Leaf for a commuter car. Work is 8.5 miles one way (1/2 at 60 mph, 1/2 at 35-45 mph) with high probability of getting $25/yr Level 2 charging at work this year. Otherwise, not much reason for this car to leave the county. Range needs are limited, at least for now.

Looking here at a "2012 SL / SV" with clean CarFax and 55K miles listed at $5700. I'm in the Midwest in area with low electric vehicle interest and dealer has been dropping price quickly. He is a GM dealer and has never driven an electric car. He sent me the attached screenshot and I'm having trouble figuring out what it means. He said it was fully charged. It is about 10 degrees out now and sitting on the lot. It appears to have 11 bars? But from what I've read this is not necessarily a reliable indicator of anything.

Salesperson said car was put into service in April 2012. So presumably that would leaf me a couple months to see if it would be covered by the 5 yr 30% battery degradation warranty... correct? (I would confirm this direct with Nissan before purchasing).

From what I've read, I definitely want to download LeafSpy and take it with me. I'm going to have to come up with some minimum criteria I presume.

I'd like this car to last at least 3 years after which I can reconsider next options and hope it has some utility for an in-town car for someone??? Current car set-up is: hers - 2005 gas guzzler crossover (160K miles) for schlepping 2 kids around short distances, 5K miles/yr. His: 2011 Prius (90K miles) for commuting 15 miles/day. We use Prius for out of state trips so she is potentially open to flipping to the Prius while I try out electric for a few years. I understand this is a rather poor way of using a Prius (won't get 50 mpg).

What I wouldn't give for an affordable used plug-in car with room for a family... I need something to hold me over until that day arrives. Thanks all.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It does look like it's both charged to 11 "fuel" bars and has 11 capacity bars. It's possible that it had the battery management system reset to show 12 and has just "recovered" to 11, so LeafSpy would be an excellent idea. The estimated range showing is low, but if it's at 10F that would explain it. If it really has 11 bars (assume 10 if you can't use LeafSpy) then it should have at least 30 miles of actual range, making it a good candidate for your short-range use. The only way that car would get a new pack under capacity warranty is if it were reset, and had 8 or 9 bars in reality.

I do find it a little odd that no battery temp bars are showing. It should be reading at least 1 or 2. Maybe the photo was taken before the car was fully booted up...

 

[jjeff]

I agree, kind of odd having no temp bars :? It was sub zero(F) here today and I had 2 temp bars which went up to 3 after driving it a little while and the temp got to 0.
Note it's not fully charged, that would also help to explain the rather low GOM.
55k is quite high for a Leaf but the price is right, don't think I've ever seen a Leaf in the $5k range, it doesn't have a salvage title does it?
What is the "level 2 charging" at work, is it a 240v outlet or an actual L2 EVSE? Note being a '12 it will only charge at 3.6kw no matter what the work EVSE might be, to get 6.6kw charging(basically twice the speed) you'd need a '13 or newer and if it were a S model it would need the charger package.

 

[phjc]

Thanks guys!

Can't find a glossary around here... what is GOM? It appears fully charged to me... I suspect that means I don't know how to read the dashboard. Going to start Google image search... or maybe Nissan car manual. [EDIT: ok - I think I get it now... you get 12/12 bars for Status of Charge (12/12 = fuel)... and X/12 bars for capacity, which slowly degrades and doesn't ever go back up... the photo shows 11/12 for BOTH of these]

It is showing 46 miles of range at this temp... and even less miles that are usable?

I assume AutoCheck (which is clean) would catch a salvage title. I hope that's a good assumption.

"The only way that car would get a new pack under capacity warranty is if it were reset, and had 8 or 9 bars in reality." ... If the dealer did some re-set thing... how long would I need to drive it before it "recovered"? Is it not as easy as taking it to a dealer and showing them the # of bars?

Chargers I'm looking at buying for work are 40 amp eMotorWerks ones... I assumed that is Level 2 EVSE.

Thanks again...

 

[ElectricEddy]

Thanks guys!

Can't find a glossary around here... what is GOM? It appears fully charged to me... I suspect that means I don't know how to read the dashboard. Going to start Google image search... or maybe Nissan car manual.

It is showing 46 miles of range at this temp... and even less miles that are usable?

I assume AutoCheck (which is clean) would catch a salvage title. I hope that's a good assumption.

"The only way that car would get a new pack under capacity warranty is if it were reset, and had 8 or 9 bars in reality." ... If the dealer did some re-set thing... how long would I need to drive it before it "recovered"? Is it not as easy as taking it to a dealer and showing them the # of bars?

Chargers I'm looking at buying for work are 40 amp eMotorWerks ones... I assumed that is Level 2 EVSE.

Thanks again...

GOM = guess o meter
It is the term given to the dash display stating your remain range which is supposed to be based on previous driving patterns which of course change constantly.
Put a piece of black tape over it and use a real indicator such as Leaf spy.

 

[phjc]

oh man... that's why I couldn't find it on the manual!

If I asked dealer to keep it in the heated shop overnight, plugged, would the GOM go up?

Is the consensus then that, short of a scientific trial run compared to similar previous parameters, the # of bars is the best way to gauge useable battery? And the LeafSpy connected via Bluetooth is the best way to gauge X/12 bars?

Was told by dealer "If you do some online research you will find they got about 60 miles to a charge in the winter, and about 90-100 in the summer"... almost fell out of my seat!

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Range Estimator (aka GOM because of its unreliability) uses most recent driving energy consumption as the basis for its estimate. I don't think that it uses the outdoor temp reading; it's just that if the car was driven in that weather, with heat on, the energy consumption would have been high, resulting in the low estimate. The estimate will probably only change if the car is driven again. Now, about those bars, again:

* There are 12 charge bars and 12 much smaller capacity bars right next to them. Same colors, very different widths. A fully charged leaf will always show 12 charge or "fuel" bars. The capacity bars stop displaying from the top one down, as the battery capacity drops. The car pictured is showing 11 of both bars. This means it is not fully charged and has lost a capacity bar. It's possible the dealer has it showing 11 charge bars just to confuse people looking for lost capacity bars - it does look a lot like 12 bars with a full charge. It's also possible that the car was charged fully, driven a few miles, and lost one charge bar. If the BMS was reset, it takes from a few weeks to a couple of months for all the lost bars to vanish again. LeafSpy can indicate a BMS reset, but it isn't super-obvious. You have to compare several of the readings, and take a couple of readings at least a week apart, for best results.

 

[phjc]

If the BMS was reset, it takes from a few weeks to a couple of months for all the lost bars to vanish again. LeafSpy can indicate a BMS reset, but it isn't super-obvious. You have to compare several of the readings, and take a couple of readings at least a week apart, for best results.

Thanks for the advice? Most importantly, if this BMS can be reset... what will the Nissan dealership do in March (4 years and 11 months) to officially determine if I've lost >30% capacity or not? How do they prevent from getting scammed?

Are the range charts posted by @tonywilliams considered pretty sacrosanct? (That is, in similar drive conditions, I could more or less bank on sticking with 10% of those numbers?). That would make a big difference...
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295

 

[macnut]

I think the dealer's camera flash made the battery temperature display unreadable - otherwise it is very odd.
Can't be put down to cold weather IMO.

Based on my experience with a 2012 on 11 capacity bars over the past 8 mos., you should be showing about 70 - 80 miles when fully charged (12 charge bars), assuming some use of ECO mode, moderate use of heater, etc.
It can go down to 11 charge bars fairly quickly, say after 5 to 8 miles driven.

To have 52 miles range showing, I would not expect that until down to 6 or 7 charge bars, and more like 3 hours showing for "time to charge to 100%".
So it does look odd, but I suppose possible if it had been subjected to only vigorous test drives with the climate control temp. set to 78F or something over the past few weeks.

I expect to lose my 11th. capacity bar soon (based on S.O. H. and Ahr readings) and that will be before 40K miles rolls around.
If previous owners of the one you are considering never set the timer to stop charging at 80% it is surprising to still be showing 11 capacity bars with that many miles on the odometer.
Not impossible though, for a Mid-west car, so very hard to clearly deduce it has been tampered with.

On balance, I would hazard a guess it has not been reset, so would not buy with the expectation of soon being down to 8 capacity bars.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I agree with the above post. While the car may have had the BMS reset, it isn't a safe bet, or even a good one. You could try asking the dealer to guarantee 11 bars for 30 days, or 10 bars or more for 90 days, and if they balk...? If they agree, try to drive the car daily, so a BMS reset will show itself via vanishing bars. Keep in mind that the car could lose one bar without a reset, if it's borderline now.

I don't know much about the range charts, so I leave that answer to those who do. I also can't give a good answer for range in Winter, except in frigid temps, maybe, because my Leaf has a heat pump. I have 12 bars, but not by much - I have about 87% capacity. In temps where the heat pump isn't doing much (below 20F), my range in mixed driving is about 40-45 miles. Speed and heater use really matter, and in the 2012 you can't even turn the heater off except by turning off the climate control, fan and all. There is a modification that can be done to fix that, though.

 

[phjc]

Thanks all... very helpful!

Next step will be a visit with an iPhone + LeafSpy... will do some research... assuming I just need to connect it via Bluetooth and tap a few buttons...

 

[magico13]

Thanks all... very helpful!

Next step will be a visit with an iPhone + LeafSpy... will do some research... assuming I just need to connect it via Bluetooth and tap a few buttons...

From what I understand with iPhones you have to use a wifi obd-ii adapter since the bluetooth ones don't work for some reason. With Android the bluetooth ones definitely work (I have one that I used to check the leaf I bought yesterday). The main thing to check is the SOH%, which for an 11 bar should be around 80% I think. Definitely make sure to do some research so you know exactly what to expect though.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Make sure you are careful to get the right OBII port reader for your phone and OS. It would be very frustrating to have what you think is all the right gear to check packs, and then find it doesn't work. As a fallback, get any dealer to guarantee in writing that the car won't lose more than one capacity bar over thirty days, and assume that any car you look at has one less bar than is showing (because it could be about to lose one). This protects you from a BMS reset, at least.

 

[jjeff]

Since the car shows 2hrs @240v to charge to 100% it means that 46 miles will go up although in bitter cold(teens or colder) 46 may be all you can muster, depending on heater use.
Juicebox is a decent EVSE although for a '12 with it's 3.6kw charger it's kind of an overkill. The vehicle is only capable of 16a so anything more will be ignored by the car. IMO a better(and cheaper) option would be something like a Ebusbar portable EVSE from Amazon. $299 and also works on 120v(with an adapter plug). I guess if you wanted to spend more(and futureproof yourself) the Juicebox would give you faster charging on newer EVs, but it's up to you.

 

[phjc]

Since the car shows 2hrs @240v to charge to 100% it means that 46 miles will go up although in bitter cold(teens or colder) 46 may be all you can muster, depending on heater use.
Juicebox is a decent EVSE although for a '12 with it's 3.6kw charger it's kind of an overkill. The vehicle is only capable of 16a so anything more will be ignored by the car. IMO a better(and cheaper) option would be something like a Ebusbar portable EVSE from Amazon. $299 and also works on 120v(with an adapter plug). I guess if you wanted to spend more(and futureproof yourself) the Juicebox would give you faster charging on newer EVs, but it's up to you.

With 17 miles of driving a day... why wouldn't I just take the stock charger and plug into the 120v outlet in my garage?

 

[LeftieBiker]

With 17 miles of driving a day... why wouldn't I just take the stock charger and plug into the 120v outlet in my garage?

That will work fine, as long as the circuit isn't used for any other loads and the wiring is in good shape. Remember, though, that the charger is in the car, and what you'll be plugging in is an "EVSE"* or "Charging cable."



* Electric Vehicle Service Equipment. Terrible acronym...

 

[jjeff]

Since the car shows 2hrs @240v to charge to 100% it means that 46 miles will go up although in bitter cold(teens or colder) 46 may be all you can muster, depending on heater use.
Juicebox is a decent EVSE although for a '12 with it's 3.6kw charger it's kind of an overkill. The vehicle is only capable of 16a so anything more will be ignored by the car. IMO a better(and cheaper) option would be something like a Ebusbar portable EVSE from Amazon. $299 and also works on 120v(with an adapter plug). I guess if you wanted to spend more(and futureproof yourself) the Juicebox would give you faster charging on newer EVs, but it's up to you.

With 17 miles of driving a day... why wouldn't I just take the stock charger and plug into the 120v outlet in my garage?

Yes the OEM L1 charger should probably work for your very modest driving needs, although L2 works a lot better for preheating if thats important to you. It was you who said you were looking for a Juicebox L2 charger in your second post:
"chargers I'm looking at buying for work are 40 amp eMotorWerks ones... I assumed that is Level 2 EVSE."
but maybe you meant to say your work was looking at those? Of course note while the Juicebox may be 40a your '12 would only charge at 16a.

 

[phjc]

Would a GMC dealer have the ability to reset the capacity bars?

 

[LeftieBiker]

They'd have to have a Nissan Consult diagnostic computer, IIRC. Wait for confirmation on that.

 

[macnut]

If it had been reset, don't immediately assume that the selling dealer did it.

Even if it was a trade-in the previous owner could have furtively got a reset done by someone with the necessary Consult h/w and s/w in order to help their negotiations.

But the motor trade is not shy about moving things around amongst themselves for mutual benefit, or redeeming IOUs, so quite possible it arrived via a Nissan dealer who didn't want it, or any other small dealer with access to Leaf reset contacts.