How to monitor the 12V battery's health?

[cornbinder89]

Never seen my battery twist anything itself, it always uses a motor.

 

[Bombastinator2]

aww

Never seen my battery twist anything itself, it always uses a motor.

point. The electric motor would be the tractOR engine. This is an issue car companies no doubt had to deal with so they went with traction

 

[cornbinder89]

Motor and engine are not interchangeable, one uses heat, the other electro-motive (magnetic) force.
A diesel electric loco has traction motors, a steam train has a steam engine.
And before you split that hair, yes a diesel electric loco does have a diesel engine also.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Motor and engine are not interchangeable, one uses heat, the other electro-motive (magnetic) force.
A diesel electric loco has traction motors, a steam train has a steam engine.
And before you split that hair, yes a diesel electric loco does have a diesel engine also.

So train makers went with traction too. It all works. I enjoy historical etyomology

 

[mrlithium]

The only reason I can think of to use lead over lithium is upfront cost. $200 vs $250 .
This is short term thinking that is more expensive in the long run. I rarely hear of anyone willing to spend the extra $50... it's crazy.

 

[Bombastinator2]

The only reason I can think of to use lead over lithium is upfront cost. $200 vs $250 .
This is short term thinking that is more expensive in the long run. I rarely hear of anyone willing to spend the extra $50... it's crazy.

It used to be that lithium car batteries cost four times what lead acid did making them uneconomical. If the price has dropped to a mere 125% from 400% you’re right. The last car battery I bought was $150 and I thought it was insane. I haven’t bought one for some years now though. If prices for lead acid 12v car batteries have gone up but lithium ones haven’t, I could see that happening. It used to be one only saw lithiums as backups and jump packs because of their smaller size and weight. Lead acid car batteries cost about $75 for a long time. This is apparently no longer the case.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is still concern about lithium car batteries in colder climates. AGM batteries are considered by many the safer bet there.

 

[cornbinder89]

For reasons stated I prefer to stay with FLA, I hadn't even thought of the cold problem with Li cells, odd because of what they do to protect them in the Leaf. Fully charged FLA doesn't freeze until -90F or there abouts. They'll freeze when discharged at much warmer temps, but if charged are the least of your worries.

 

[Bombastinator2]

There is still concern about lithium car batteries in colder climates. AGM batteries are considered by many the safer bet there.

I get the impression that it’s a “most of the time” kind of thing. I’ve had lead acid batteries killed by really cold weather too. I’ve seen battery heaters. A lithium battery would likely want one more than a lead acid, but I’ve seen them for lead acid. Maybe they’ll travel south a bit. I got taken by the °c vs °f thing a bit ago on this forum. -40f is the same as -40c though and that’s the kind of weather it takes to hurt a lead acid.

 

[cornbinder89]

As far as I know, no one said L-A or any other kind of battery doesn't loose the ability to provide the same power cold, as it does at higher temps. Battery heater are used to prevent this as an aid to starting in the cold with L/A starting batteries. The Lithium battery cold problem is different, it can damage the cells if they get too cold.
A charged L/A battery can sit at -30F and still be fine, it can not supply the same power it can at 60F in those temps, but will suffer no lasting effect from being cooled to -30F. That is not the case with Lithium.
It is the difference between being helped by and requiring.

 

[Bombastinator2]

As far as I know, no one said L-A or any other kind of battery doesn't loose the ability to provide the same power cold, as it does at higher temps. Battery heater are used to prevent this as an aid to starting in the cold with L/A starting batteries. The Lithium battery cold problem is different, it can damage the cells if they get too cold.
A charged L/A battery can sit at -30F and still be fine, it can not supply the same power it can at 60F in those temps, but will suffer no lasting effect from being cooled to -30F. That is not the case with Lithium.
It is the difference between being helped by and requiring.

Coool. I was under the impression the electrolyte would eventually freeze though. Might be well below common earth temperatures. My current location is Minnesota rather than North Dakota. (never had a lead acid freeze here, only in N.D.) -30 is more than rare here where I am now. I’ve seen -20 occasionally, but not -30. I’m also in a river valley though. My memory of lead acid though is if it got too low it would stop its recharge ability. I’ve been told that if you saw bulging in the sides of a lead acid battery that meant it was frozen and would never recharge again. Perhaps this was untrue. I was told it many many years ago though and it may no longer apply. A packaging rather than chemistry thing for one possible example. Water does get bigger when it freezes.

 

[lebikerboy]

I've been using an LFP battery for three years with no problems whatsoever...