Hybrid car sales: Lots of options, few takers

[LTLFTcomposite]

Even if the battery does not need replacing, which has the lower TCO, a 2011 Prius or a 2011 Corolla?

http://www.edmunds.com/tco.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the Edmunds 5 year TCO calculator:

2011 Prius II TCO $35.7k gas $5.2k

2011 Corolla S (4 speed AT) TCO $35.9k gas $8.95k

Priuses are VERY durable, very little to go wrong in them, very high resale value also.. note that at 10 years you would be further ahead on the Prius.

BTW, the Leaf wins at a TCO of $33.7k

I sit corrected. There's some big assumptions there though, for starters how good a deal can you get on the two cars. The Corolla has lots of competitors (better ones at that) whereas if you want a Prius you have to take whatever the Toyota dealer dishes out.

Taking the Edmunds numbers at face value though, it's a leap of faith to put out an extra 5-7 grand up front to save $200 over several years. I stand by my original assertion that hybrids just aren't compelling... basically the savings in operating costs does not enure to the owner, but rather goes back to the manufacturer and dealer.

 

[davewill]

I sit corrected. There's some big assumptions there though, for starters how good a deal can you get on the two cars. The Corolla has lots of competitors (better ones at that) whereas if you want a Prius you have to take whatever the Toyota dealer dishes out.

Taking the Edmunds numbers at face value though, it's a leap of faith to put out an extra 5-7 grand up front to save $200 over several years. I stand by my original assertion that hybrids just aren't compelling... basically the savings in operating costs does not enure to the owner, but rather goes back to the manufacturer and dealer.

That's a good idea, move the goal posts. First the complaint is that TCO doesn't compare. Now that it does, you change position.

P.S. One of the assumptions is that you don't care about emissions. A Prius puts out significantly less pollutants than an equivalent ICE car. The reduction is MUCH greater than the difference in fuel use. This is quite important to me.

 

[abasile]

The more miles you have to drive, the better the TCO advantage in favor of the Prius vs. non-hybrid ICE. I have an uncle with a long commute who is really appreciating the cost savings with his Prius.

One of our vehicles is a Prius not so much because we want to save money, but because we want to reduce our dependence on a carbon-based fuel that must be supplied in part by hostile nations.

 

[DaveEV]

I sit corrected. There's some big assumptions there though, for starters how good a deal can you get on the two cars. The Corolla has lots of competitors (better ones at that) whereas if you want a Prius you have to take whatever the Toyota dealer dishes out.

Taking the Edmunds numbers at face value though, it's a leap of faith to put out an extra 5-7 grand up front to save $200 over several years. I stand by my original assertion that hybrids just aren't compelling... basically the savings in operating costs does not enure to the owner, but rather goes back to the manufacturer and dealer.

That's a good idea, move the goal posts. First the complaint is that TCO doesn't compare. Now that it does, you change position.

+1

BTW, at least around here when I got my Prius a couple years ago, bought it through Costco and got it for $500 over invoice without any haggling. Maybe things are different there in FL - but that's how I've got my other previous car as well.

I dont know about you, but I sure see lots a priuses in socal.

Seems like they're the most popular car around these parts. Very often you'll see 3-5 of them at the same intersection.

 

[SanDust]

From the Edmunds 5 year TCO calculator:

2011 Prius II TCO $35.7k gas $5.2k

2011 Corolla S (4 speed AT) TCO $35.9k gas $8.95k

Not getting these numbers. For the Prius II the calculator says $39,365. For the Prius I it shows $38,303 (have they actually ever sold one of these to a non-fleet buyer?). The Leaf shows $39,804. The Corolla shows $38,366. The only other two I ran was the Honda Fit which came in the cheapest at $35,511 and the BMW 535ix at $79,555 which was, surprise, the most expensive.

Not sure why we didn't get the same numbers but maybe a different zipcode. But the Prius is definitely not cheaper according to Edmunds when I run it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You all are missing my point. It isn't like a buyer looks at hybrid options or TDI and says "hey I'm the smartest guy in the room, I'll buy this and it will save me thousands!". No, it won't. Between the manufacturer, the dealer, and market forces, the savings always seem to wind up in someone else's pocket, unless you're this guy: http://automobiles.honda.com/mile-makers/story.aspx?Story=614" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

Your point about about less oil consumed or lower carbon emissions is well taken, but good luck selling that on a Saturday afternoon at a dealership. Most people are not that analytical, and will go with whatever favors their pocketbook in the short run, or whatever they fall in love with from an image standpoint. The hybrid doesn't do well in either of those categories.

 

[Herm]

Not sure why we didn't get the same numbers but maybe a different zipcode. But the Prius is definitely not cheaper according to Edmunds when I run it.

Probably the zip code, try 33144

 

[thankyouOB]

I am not sure why lieutenant lift thinks he can read people's minds or is some sort of marketing guru.
What I get from his posts on this thread is too many I heards, and conclusions from his POV, as well as blind supposition based on personal prejudices and his view of the world.
occasionally someone bothers to throw a fact at him, and he turns right around.

boring.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I am not sure why lieutenant lift thinks he can read people's minds or is some sort of marketing guru.
What I get from his posts on this thread is too many I heards, and conclusions from his POV, as well as blind supposition based on personal prejudices and his view of the world.
occasionally someone bothers to throw a fact at him, and he turns right around.

boring.

I thought the topic was the declining rate (or lack of increasing rate) of customer acceptance of hybrids despite an increase in the number of consumer choices in the market... and having recently faced that choice in the marketplace myself the rationale for the conclusions reached from my "POV" were a worthy addition to the conversation. Please accept my apologies for not being more enlightened, or more entertaining, or for overreaching into speculation as to why so many others in the market seem to share my POV. In the future I'll leave this to the real marketing gurus who no doubt have it all figured out.

 

[evnow]

Taking the Edmunds numbers at face value though, it's a leap of faith to put out an extra 5-7 grand up front to save $200 over several years. I stand by my original assertion that hybrids just aren't compelling... basically the savings in operating costs does not enure to the owner, but rather goes back to the manufacturer and dealer.

I agree - TCO is only useful if financing costs are taking into account.

However - nobody buys cars just for TCO. Only fleets & companies do.

People make emotional decisions (bounded by fiscal reality). There is a big difference between what a Corolla ownership says about a person compared to a Prius.

The real problem with hybrids is that apart from Prius, there aren't any hybrids that give a significantly better mileage / social status to make the extra cost worthwhile.

ps : I'm moving this to Business forum as this is not about Plugins.

 

[TomT]

I doubt Lexus would agree with you... :lol:

The real problem with hybrids is that apart from Prius, there aren't any hybrids that give a significantly better mileage / social status to make the extra cost worthwhile.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I doubt Lexus would agree with you... :lol:

The real problem with hybrids is that apart from Prius, there aren't any hybrids that give a significantly better mileage / social status to make the extra cost worthwhile.

Speaking of which, how is this not false advertising? I want to put my fist through the TV every time it comes on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJTYPq0gNCo&feature=pyv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Herm]

Speaking of which, how is this not false advertising? I want to put my fist through the TV every time it comes on.

Time to switch to decaf..

http://www.lexus.com/Engineering_Amazing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Time to switch to decaf..

http://www.lexus.com/Engineering_Amazing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK that explains everything. By using the "Power-Split Device" they have created a car that runs on anything. Pure genius.

 

[SanDust]

Probably the zip code, try 33144

Yup. But the Corolla is still a couple of thousand dollars cheaper for me.

 

[evnow]

I doubt Lexus would agree with you... :lol:

The real problem with hybrids is that apart from Prius, there aren't any hybrids that give a significantly better mileage / social status to make the extra cost worthwhile.

But does a hybrid Lexus get you more status than normal Lexus - can people even tell the difference ? Just putting a sticker at the back doesn't cut it.

 

[Herm]

Probably the zip code, try 33144

Yup. But the Corolla is still a couple of thousand dollars cheaper for me.

Select the most expensive Corolla, with an AT. Also note that some States have further incentives that are not in the Edmund's analysis..