ICEless in Seattle : Official Pacific NorthWest thread

[UhClem]

I looked here: http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but can't find anything. I emailed WSDOT, but got no response yet.

Thx, y'all.

I emailed DoT a week ago. No reply yet.

I filled in the contact form on AV's site yesterday. No reply there, either.

The QC in Bellingham now appears to be off. They don't seem to be ready for actual customers, yet.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

A "no comment" comment? Really? :ugeek:

ok, fine. i will comment. i dont understand your concern.

EVs are new and they are getting off to a slower, rockier start than i would prefer, but at the same time, i am still seeing more movement to the concept every day.

now, we can sit and wait for the cream of the crop to rise to the top or go out and investigate every option.

i agree having a bunch of cards is probably a bit of an inconvenience, but i am not in a position to pass over one system in favor of another. right now; none are 100% or even very good for that matter. so its necessary for me to access the 3 or 4 systems that are scattered around my town

now the membership card comment i made is to illustrate that the issue you have with finding "the best" charging company out there is one we all go thru in many aspects of our lives.

i have all those cards because at one time or another, they provide me the best option and if i can save 30 cents on a purchase at Safeway, sure why not? its not like i provided much of any information for the card. they gave me the card and a form to fill out. never filled out the form and the card still works. same for all the rest except for ones that can be charged on like Target. those had to have "credit card" level information verified before the card was issued, but i do Target enough to where i want that 5% discount when i do buy something there.

obtw; the card list i provided was no where near complete. i have many more


**edit** i also send email inquiries and it usually takes at least a month for them to respond. the last one i sent was Feb 20th, so expecting a response some time this week hopefully

 

[davewill]

ANY credit /debit card, accepted at ANY DC charge point, with NO other requirement, is the inevitable free-market standard.

Government-planned DC installations, may take quite a while, to get there...

This has NOTHING to do with the government. It has to do with the EV charging companies being determined to "capture" the EV charging market. They are all dreaming of having large numbers of people paying them monthly fees for charging. Luckily that isn't going to work out and most of them will have to give it up and accept credit cards.

 

[edatoakrun]

ANY credit /debit card, accepted at ANY DC charge point, with NO other requirement, is the inevitable free-market standard.

Government-planned DC installations, may take quite a while, to get there...

This has NOTHING to do with the government. It has to do with the EV charging companies being determined to "capture" the EV charging market. They are all dreaming of having large numbers of people paying them monthly fees for charging. Luckily that isn't going to work out and most of them will have to give it up and accept credit cards.

My comment was oversimplified, but correct (I believe) regarding all west coast installations, as being largely government planned, and financed, operations, so far.

But I accept your point, that many (less directly) subsidized DC charge stations, in other states, are adopting subscription models, at his time. This will, IMO, probably fail, over the longer term.

With Gasoline, the seller can at least claim a superior product, due to additives, etc, to "sell" a brand.

Electricity is the ultimate fungible product, except for those who want to pay more for "greener" kWh, and also believe that they can do so, while buying off the common grid.

With BEVs shorter range, (as compared to gas) will make "location, location, location" the primary interest of consumers, at first.

So, as long as Vendors have a location monopoly, they can sell subscriptions.

Once other "pay per kWh" DC charge points open near subscription ones, I just don't think that model is very likely to last long.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

since an electron is an electron, each company will have no choice but to distinguish themselves by price and location.

right now, i have little choice but to participate with everyone because no one has a matured network. its all pretty patchwork right now and i am guessing that will remain for a few more years.

who knows? we might all be Better Place subscribers in the end. what i see more likely is a company backed big Big Oil Money, coming in to take over the market. they have the cash to do so.

soon it will be another Verizon/ATT duopoly. sure, there will be others, but only a few will provide the coverage needed to rely on a single company.

as far as the cellphone thing. sure Sprint and T-mobile still out there, but both combined dont equal the size of either of the two above

 

[davewill]

... soon it will be another Verizon/ATT duopoly. sure, there will be others, but only a few will provide the coverage needed to rely on a single company. ...

Maybe, but the thing is that any Mom and Pop will in the future be able to buy an EVSE/QC, install it, and charge money for it. Unlike a cellphone or even an ATM, they don't need a network at all if they don't want to give the big boys a cut...kinda like how third party ATMs popped up everywhere when banks started charging big fees for users not from their bank, only more so.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

i have voiced my view in several forums and I'll summarize here. EVSE's should be accessible with a credit card and no need for a 'network' membership. A network membership component is an option that may provide additional incentives for consumers and can be offered but under no circumstance should it be mandatory to have one to use a public EVSE. I can't stand the idea that as EV's become mainstream, that a new purchaser could purchase a EV on day 1, follow the internal GPS map of the car to a charge station and then discover they can not use the station because they lack membership in some company network that takes weeks to accomplish. i give credit to Coulomb and AV for at least providing 800 numbers and a service center that can remotely enable the EVSE but even that is an unnecessarily painful process.

thoughts on how to make EVSE suppliers see the light? petition? maybe the marketplace eventually helps them figure it out but my fear is that we turn off potential early EV buyers.

 

[klapauzius]

thoughts on how to make EVSE suppliers see the light? petition? maybe the marketplace eventually helps them figure it out but my fear is that we turn off potential early EV buyers.

Just dont get in on their membership schemes. If they wont have subscribers, they will have to change their business model...unfortunately with a large number of people willing to shell out $50-$70 for such useless memberships, I am afraid we are heading down that road...

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

thoughts on how to make EVSE suppliers see the light? petition? maybe the marketplace eventually helps them figure it out but my fear is that we turn off potential early EV buyers.

Just dont get in on their membership schemes. If they wont have subscribers, they will have to change their business model...unfortunately with a large number of people willing to shell out $50-$70 for such useless memberships, I am afraid we are heading down that road...

I like many others, need to utilize these chargers in the course of our normal lives and the network component is a requirement at this point - not a choice. If I could choose not to use them, I would. I have found most of the networks to have a minor cost hurtle for joining but they still require me to share information that not everyone will be comfortable sharing. That said, the issue for me isn't one of not wanting to be a member but instead the requirement to be a member to use the station. I just don't want stations to be inaccessible to non-members. Anyone should be able to roll up and use a public EVSE with a normal payment method (dollars or Credit Card) - just like a parking meter. Imagine having to be a member of some club to use a parking meter.

 

[klapauzius]

I like many others, need to utilize these chargers in the course of our normal lives and the network component is a requirement at this point - not a choice.

Well, then you are at their mercy and have to do whatever they want....I think that is how monopolies work.

I still hope there will be reasonable pay-per-use options...

 

[ebill3]

I just don't want stations to be inaccessible to non-members. Anyone should be able to roll up and use a public EVSE with a normal payment method (dollars or Credit Card) - just like a parking meter. Imagine having to be a member of some club to use a parking meter.

While I share your view concerning access, note that most are not really 'public', but are owned by a business entity. That being the case, I guess they are free to set their own rules for use. I wonder what the agreement is in the case of those stations at truly public facilities such as libraries, city halls, fire stations and such.

Bill

 

[Mars]

I still hope there will be reasonable pay-per-use options...

Hope is not a plan, as they say. Unfortunately, force is the only thing that can be depended upon to work. BY force, I mean the application of concerted effort and the intelligent use of money until "they" come to Jesus with this whole subscription nonsense.

Maybe if we had an EV Union?

What about it, NAEVU - North American Electric Vehicle Union? We could have a lobby in DC and input on state and local laws, sort of like the NRA model.

We need a logo and someone to set up a website where we can register and make Paypal "donations" to our new not-for-profit organization. Then we put stickers on our cars and drive to the state capitol on some saturday for a photo op with the governor, all smiles, while in the back room we deal mercilessly with those who would try to ruin the most important industrial revolution since, well, the industrial revolution.

Anyone? Buehler?

 

[Luft]

thoughts on how to make EVSE suppliers see the light? petition? maybe the marketplace eventually helps them figure it out but my fear is that we turn off potential early EV buyers.

Just dont get in on their membership schemes. If they wont have subscribers, they will have to change their business model...unfortunately with a large number of people willing to shell out $50-$70 for such useless memberships, I am afraid we are heading down that road...

I don't think too many people are going to want to shell out $50 - $70 for subscriptions. Even if charging was unlimited. I rarely need to travel outside of the range of my LEAF and I'm sure not going to want to stand around every day at a charging station so I can "get my moneys worth" when I can just plug-in at home.

To make subscriptions work they must provide value to the consumer. Having a chain of charging stations that allows me to go anywhere I want would be real value. Will I travel long distances frequently? Nope, but it would be nice to know that I could if I wanted to.

I don't have any problems with the subscription model but just not at an outrageous rate. I also agree with others that if I don't subscribe I should still be allowed to "pay as I go." There should be no reason to limit the payment method to a single plan.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

oh i think there are enough people out there that are willing especially if if allows them to do a 120-130 mile RT commute with a QC every day to get home. the alternative would be what? $200-400 in gas?

 

[klapauzius]

oh i think there are enough people out there that are willing especially if if allows them to do a 120-130 mile RT commute with a QC every day to get home. the alternative would be what? $200-400 in gas?

add 120-130 mile RT commutes to the list of unnecessary, wasteful behavior...

I'd rather move closer to my workplace than spending >2h everyday in the car

Admittedly, spending it in a Leaf would make it more fun, but still...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

oh i think there are enough people out there that are willing especially if if allows them to do a 120-130 mile RT commute with a QC every day to get home. the alternative would be what? $200-400 in gas?

add 120-130 mile RT commutes to the list of unnecessary, wasteful behavior...

I'd rather move closer to my workplace than spending >2h everyday in the car

Admittedly, spending it in a Leaf would make it more fun, but still...

oh !! got confused there for a second... i was thinking "now why are we talking about cheap gas?"

 

[Luft]

oh i think there are enough people out there that are willing especially if if allows them to do a 120-130 mile RT commute with a QC every day to get home. the alternative would be what? $200-400 in gas?

I have no doubt that their are some who travel that far daily but I have to think not enough to make a subscription model work. But that's just my gut feelings. No data to back it up.

 

[doug401]

Burlington DC3 is coming along... But no power yet.
http://www.pbase.com/doug401/image/142309701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I finally got to get my hands on a actual high speed connector.

I applied for the AV fob, and received an email reply saying as soon as the are online they will continue with the process.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Won't be till mid may.they Will turn on the entire string art one time and the other locations have yet to break ground

 

[Luft]

I'm kind of day dreaming possible extended trips and ways of charging along the way. I would like to get more experienced peoples opinion on if a particular trip is possible / advisable.

I'm thinking of going from Tenino to the Rimrock Lake resort. The trip is 125 miles one way. And I assume that part of it will be climbing part way up a mountain.

I figure that I would stop in Morton and grab a charge using my modified Nissan trickle charger and a home made quick 240. (I think that the Morton Moose lodge may let me plug in.) From Morton it's 64 miles to the resort. Normally that would be a piece of cake but there is that mountain thing.

What do you guys think? Is this being overly ambitious?