is it possible to make a 6.6kw converter/dongle for the QC?

[mdh]

I am very sorry if this has been covered, but I could not find it via search.

I see chatter about a possible faster chargers (6.6kw) in 2013. I believe upgrading from 3.3 to 6.6 will be very difficult for legacy cars. Why can't someone build an economical converter/dongle for the QC port? Sorry in advance as I am not a EE.

 

[jimcmorr]

I am very sorry if this has been covered, but I could not find it via search.

I see chatter about a possible faster chargers (6.6kw) in 2013. I believe upgrading from 3.3 to 6.6 will be very difficult for legacy cars. Why can't someone build an economical converter/dongle for the QC port? Sorry in advance as I am not a EE.

Or 10Kw... or 15Kw...

I recall having this thought myself but I don't remember if I ever asked about it or read anything about it here. I think it might be a medium size breadbox, but doable. There are off-the-shelf chargers available but I don't know if they can be interfaced correctly with the LEAF's systems. Though, I have heard it said that anything is possible given enough time and money.

If possible, and economical enough, I might even change my mind and order the QC port for my LEAF when the time comes!

 

[Randy]

I think it could be done, but I don't think it can be done economically.

I've read that just the Chademo connector alone is about $800. This EVSE would have to supply DC and all of the necessary command/control to interface with the car and throttle back the charge when approaching full, etc.

What price point would be attractive?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I think it could be done, but I don't think it can be done economically.

I've read that just the Chademo connector alone is about $800. This EVSE would have to supply DC and all of the necessary command/control to interface with the car and throttle back the charge when approaching full, etc.

What price point would be attractive?

It would be an outboard charger not an EVSE, a connector, and a custom interface. No point on doing unless you go 7.2kw or higher and not very cost effective unless sold in high volume. Don't count on any type of affordable charge option for a gen1 LEAF. Sorry but that is the reality of Nissan's foolish decisions to back off a 6.6kw charger and to not fit the car with wiring that could be upgraded.

 

[jimcmorr]

I think it could be done, but I don't think it can be done economically.

I've read that just the Chademo connector alone is about $800. This EVSE would have to supply DC and all of the necessary command/control to interface with the car and throttle back the charge when approaching full, etc.

What price point would be attractive?

Good point about CHAdeMO! That protocol, let alone the connector specs and cost, has been well hidden. I had forgotten that I had tried to find out those specs several weeks ago and came up empty. The membership in the CHAdeMO club is prohibitively expensive and they require secrecy on all the secrets that are divulged as privilege of membership.

I do understand it would of necessity be an external charger.

Bottom line: I agree that this is very unlikely to happen.

 

[GregH]

Not only the cost of the Chademo plug and associated interface stuff, but how about the charger itself? Several thousand bucks for a Manzanita Micro? What other options are out there? It sounds like a fun project but certainly not cheap..

 

[jimcmorr]

Not only the cost of the Chademo plug and associated interface stuff, but how about the charger itself? Several thousand bucks for a Manzanita Micro? What other options are out there? It sounds like a fun project but certainly not cheap..

It does sound like fun! Something like the SOC research posted here that was so interesting. I wonder how the CHAdeMO folks would feel about a group of people reverse-engineering their protocol.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I've read that just the Chademo connector alone is about $800.

For that kind of money, it wouldn't take a very big production run to make your own for much, much cheaper.

I do know of one person working on this charger concept, but no other details.

 

[evmike]

It seems Nissan has solved this issue - they simply need to sell it in the US at a reasonable price. See http://www.japantoday.com/category/...-unveils-new-power-supply-system-through-leaf

 

[jimcmorr]

It seems Nissan has solved this issue - they simply need to sell it in the US at a reasonable price. See http://www.japantoday.com/category/...-unveils-new-power-supply-system-through-leaf

This article describes a vehicle to house or grid device. Not a charger but a dis-charger powering your house.

 

[garygid]

It is also a charger, Grid to LEAF 2-way energy transfer.
But, likely to be much more expensive than Nissan's in-Japan QC unit (about $11,000 maybe?).

Requiring $6000 a year to use the Chademo Specs is somewhat stupid if you really want it to become a useful world standard.

------- Reverse Engineering -------
We now have the ability and opportunity to log the messages on the QC-CAN buss.

Collecting a Log during two QC sessions (one to 80%, another to 100%) might give us enough information to understand the Chademo communications.

Then, it is relatively easy to design our own MNL-QC device.

Who wants to get the Logs? (no cost, tap 2 wires, need a LEAF, and some time)

Who wants to help decode the Logs? (no cost, no LEAF required, just time)

 

[jimcmorr]

It is also a charger, Grid to LEAF 2-way energy transfer.
But, likely to be much more expensive than Nissan's in-Japan QC unit (about $11,000 maybe?).

I must have missed that in my quick read. As Maxwell Smart used to say, "Sorry about that".

Requiring $6000 a year to use the Chademo Specs is somewhat stupid if you really want it to become a useful world standard.

I whole heartedly agree with that!

------- Reverse Engineering -------
We now have the ability and opportunity to log the messages on the QC-CAN buss.

Collecting a Log during two QC sessions (one to 80%, another to 100%) might give us enough information to understand the Chademo communications.

Then, it is relatively easy to design our own MNL-QC device.

Who wants to get the Logs? (no cost, tap 2 wires, and some time)

Who wants to help decode the Logs? (no cost, just time)

I would LOVE to help but alas I don't have a LEAF yet. Currently in a tier 5 state. Soon to move to a tier 2 state. I will be glad to help as soon as I get my LEAF.

 

[davewill]

Requiring $6000 a year to use the Chademo Specs is somewhat stupid if you really want it to become a useful world standard.

To a mainstream manufacturer, it's peanuts.

 

[hill]

Not only the cost of the Chademo plug and associated interface stuff, but how about the charger itself? Several thousand bucks for a Manzanita Micro? ........................snip

Manzanita makes a 400V DC unit?!? I'd like to see that.

Maybe you're talking about this monster?
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=59&category_id=14

.

 

[mywaracfirfoyff]

Not only the cost of the Chademo plug and associated interface stuff, but how about the charger itself? Several thousand bucks for a Manzanita Micro? What other options are out there? It sounds like a fun project but certainly not cheap..

Something like this would be a good foundation for a CAN controlled charger for the LEAF:
http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl

This is described as a 10Kw CAN controlled charger for $600.
Seems pretty cool.

 

[davewill]

Maybe you're talking about this monster?
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=59&category_id=14

I think all of those chargers (even the $2000 ones) do 400v, just not at 54kW like that monster.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.browse&category_id=14

 

[garygid]

A high-power, controlled-current and controlled-voltage, lower ripple "power supply" is not trivial, but is not that difficult. To do it safely, with good operating margins, usable in AZ temperatures, etc. takes noticably more work, but it can be done by folks with the right skills and experience.

The Control Handshaking and CAN-Control Protocols are the missing element, but that requires little more than a uP (like an AVR-CAN board) and the right firmware.

So, ... Anybody with some time, a LEAF, and a nearby operating QC machine ... want to play?

1. From the LEAF Service Manual, we need to find a convenient spot to "tap" the QC-CAN buss.

2. I need to expand CAN-Do to read the 4th CAN buss and Log it (a ".qcc" file), and include it with my All-CAN Log file.

3. I have the 3-channel logger hardware (normally for EV, Car, and AV CAN busses) that I can easily expand to 4-channel logging (or use the AV channel for the QC-CAN).

 

[surfingslovak]

Something like this would be a good foundation for a CAN controlled charger for the LEAF:
http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl

Yes, I'm a fan of Electric Motor Werks as well! There was a lengthy discussion about the design of a 10kW charger on the DIY electric car forum. The CHAdeMO protocol could likely be reverse-engineered, just like Gary said. Please do not underestimate the difficulty of procuring a CHAdeMO plug. I was surprised what I had to go through just to source the rather mundane J1772. Perhaps one of the commercial players like Epyon would be willing to help. If not directly, then at least indirectly by addressing the needs for home quick charging?

 

[garygid]

To become a LEAF-CAN "detective" you do not need a LEAF, just time, an inquiring mind, and a Windoze PC.

1. Download my CAN-Do program, a Log file, and the latest "Recipe" file to a folder
2. Run CAN-Do and see if it works, or needs another VB6 run-time file.
3. Get familiar with using the Log-viewing, analysis, and graphing parts of the program.
4. We will provide other Log files for you to "investigate" as they become available.

Ask specific questions here, or in the "CAN-Do ..." thread.

 

[garygid]

Right, ... are there any willing, diplomatic persons:

1. with contacts in Japan, or at major manufacturers that might have non-secret information/advice/sources for obtaining Chademo Plugs?

2. who would/could contact Nissan (North America and/or Japan) for any "public" Chademo Details?