Is using End Timer to charge to 100% during winter harmful?

[BoulderLeaf]

Hi all,

I have a 2012 LEAF and generally it works well for our commute. However, in the winter if we make side trips or go out to lunch sometimes we get low on charge by the t ok me we get home. I had created an always on timer that limited charging to 80% all the time. However, with winter approaching and on the advice of some folks here I created and end timer instead to charge to 80% right before I leave in the morning so that the battery would be a bit warmer before I drove off in the cold mornings.

That works pretty well but sometimes there are closer days than others. Is there harm in changing this to charge to 100%? If I don't let the car sit at the high SOC is there much more harm than 80%? I've thought the really bad conditions are sitting at high SOC at high temperatures. Is this right?

Thanks!

 

[cgaydos]

Hi all,

I have a 2012 LEAF and generally it works well for our commute. However, in the winter if we make side trips or go out to lunch sometimes we get low on charge by the t ok me we get home. I had created an always on timer that limited charging to 80% all the time. However, with winter approaching and on the advice of some folks here I created and end timer instead to charge to 80% right before I leave in the morning so that the battery would be a bit warmer before I drove off in the cold mornings.

That works pretty well but sometimes there are closer days than others. Is there harm in changing this to charge to 100%? If I don't let the car sit at the high SOC is there much more harm than 80%? I've thought the really bad conditions are sitting at high SOC at high temperatures. Is this right?

Thanks!

Your understanding is correct. The problem with 100% charging mostly has to do with leaving the battery in the 100% state for a period of time, especially in heat. Many of us will charge to 80% most of the time and charge to 100% just before leaving on a longer trip.

You can override the 80% always-on timer one of two ways (without having to change the timer itself). One is the timer-off button to the left and below the steering wheel. The other is with the Carwings app, where you can choose to "start charging". Once you do either of these the car will charge to 100% unless you unplug it.

 

[essaunders]

charging to 100% causes you to lose any regen at the start of your trip. This is relevant to me as I have a noticeable downhill for the first mile when leaving my house. couple this with the reduced regen in cold weather and it might be significant.

 

[Klayfish]

From everything I've read, it shouldn't hurt. I sure hope it doesn't. I like having the extra flexibility too. My timer is an end timer too. Set to charge to 100% at 4:40am. I leave the house at 4:50am, so theoretically if the timer does it just right, it hits full charge only 10 minutes before I leave.

 

[davewill]

From everything I've read, it shouldn't hurt. I sure hope it doesn't. I like having the extra flexibility too. My timer is an end timer too. Set to charge to 100% at 4:40am. I leave the house at 4:50am, so theoretically if the timer does it just right, it hits full charge only 10 minutes before I leave.

It won't. The charge will actually end anywhere from 30 min to an hour or more before the end time you specify. The estimate it uses to decide to start is notoriously conservative.

 

[epirali]

Hi all,

I have a 2012 LEAF and generally it works well for our commute. However, in the winter if we make side trips or go out to lunch sometimes we get low on charge by the t ok me we get home. I had created an always on timer that limited charging to 80% all the time. However, with winter approaching and on the advice of some folks here I created and end timer instead to charge to 80% right before I leave in the morning so that the battery would be a bit warmer before I drove off in the cold mornings.

That works pretty well but sometimes there are closer days than others. Is there harm in changing this to charge to 100%? If I don't let the car sit at the high SOC is there much more harm than 80%? I've thought the really bad conditions are sitting at high SOC at high temperatures. Is this right?

Thanks!

Your understanding is correct. The problem with 100% charging mostly has to do with leaving the battery in the 100% state for a period of time, especially in heat. Many of us will charge to 80% most of the time and charge to 100% just before leaving on a longer trip.

You can override the 80% always-on timer one of two ways (without having to change the timer itself). One is the timer-off button to the left and below the steering wheel. The other is with the Carwings app, where you can choose to "start charging". Once you do either of these the car will charge to 100% unless you unplug it.

This is true only if you turn off long life/80% option for non timer charging.

 

[RegGuheert]

That works pretty well but sometimes there are closer days than others. Is there harm in changing this to charge to 100%? If I don't let the car sit at the high SOC is there much more harm than 80%? I've thought the really bad conditions are sitting at high SOC at high temperatures. Is this right?

That's right.

But it is also bad to go down to very low SOCs. Personally, I am more comfortable with charging to 100% (right before departure) than taking the battery below VLBW. I like to keep it above LBW if possible.

 

[Klayfish]

From everything I've read, it shouldn't hurt. I sure hope it doesn't. I like having the extra flexibility too. My timer is an end timer too. Set to charge to 100% at 4:40am. I leave the house at 4:50am, so theoretically if the timer does it just right, it hits full charge only 10 minutes before I leave.

It won't. The charge will actually end anywhere from 30 min to an hour or more before the end time you specify. The estimate it uses to decide to start is notoriously conservative.

Guess I can play around with the timer and see what happens. I'll set it to be at full charge at 5:00am and see where it is when I get in at 4:50am. If it's at 96%, no big deal. Even at 80%, I'd still make it too/from work.

 

[planet4ever]

This is true only if you turn off long life/80% option for non timer charging.

No, that option applies only to a 2013 LEAF. BoulderLeaf has a 2012.

Ray

 

[ebill3]

Charge to 80% overnight. While plugged in, use the app to start climate control sometime before morning departure. Two things will happen: toasty warm car using shore power, and the charging will resume. You may not get top 100% before departure, but it will be >80%.

I think I practice good battery habits. I charge both our cars to 80%, but never give it a second thought if I think I might need, or be more comfortable with, maximum range - charge.

 

[BoulderLeaf]

Thanks all. I'm going to go ahead and change my end timer to 100% for the winter.

My only other dilemma is using a climate control timer to heat the cabin. Right now, it uses shore power but since it kicks on after the end timer finishes and the heater is inefficient and only having a 3.6kWh charger, sometimes the climate control timer eats into the battery. I'm going to experiment with changing the climate control priority to see if I can both preheat the car and get to 100% SOC.

 

[BoulderLeaf]

Oh, I also like the idea of using a CarWings timer to turn on the heater... that might accomplish what I need too.

 

[Nubo]

Charge to 80% overnight. While plugged in, use the app to start climate control sometime before morning departure. Two things will happen: toasty warm car using shore power, and the charging will resume. You may not get top 100% before departure, but it will be >80%.

I think I practice good battery habits. I charge both our cars to 80%, but never give it a second thought if I think I might need, or be more comfortable with, maximum range - charge.

+1

This is what I do if I need a bit extra. I have an end-timer for 06:00. Usually charge finishes sometime between 05:00 and 05:30. When I get up at 06:00, I'll start the climate control before I get in the shower. By the time I leave, I'll be at about 11 bars and a warm interior. So, the batteries are a bit warmer, I have a warm cabin for awhile without using battery, and maybe a 90% charge.

 

[BoulderLeaf]

Charge to 80% overnight. While plugged in, use the app to start climate control sometime before morning departure. Two things will happen: toasty warm car using shore power, and the charging will resume. You may not get top 100% before departure, but it will be >80%.

I think I practice good battery habits. I charge both our cars to 80%, but never give it a second thought if I think I might need, or be more comfortable with, maximum range - charge.

+1

This is what I do if I need a bit extra. I have an end-timer for 06:00. Usually charge finishes sometime between 05:00 and 05:30. When I get up at 06:00, I'll start the climate control before I get in the shower. By the time I leave, I'll be at about 11 bars and a warm interior. So, the batteries are a bit warmer, I have a warm cabin for awhile without using battery, and maybe a 90% charge.

Thanks, I don't want to necessarily have to manually do this using my phone but I may.

Thamks for all the suggestions everyone!

 

[cgaydos]

Oh, I also like the idea of using a CarWings timer to turn on the heater... that might accomplish what I need too.

If that works for you, great. We have 5 drivers who share our pool of cars and find that the simplest solution works the best. To avoid confusion we never touch the timers - the timers charge to 80% whenever the cars are plugged in. When extra charge is needed the driver hits the manual timer-off button 30-60 minutes before departure. When pre-heating is desired the carwings app is used to turn climate control on about 10-15 minutes before departure.

 

[JPWhite]

Oh, I also like the idea of using a CarWings timer to turn on the heater... that might accomplish what I need too.

If that works for you, great. We have 5 drivers who share our pool of cars and find that the simplest solution works the best. To avoid confusion we never touch the timers - the timers charge to 80% whenever the cars are plugged in. When extra charge is needed the driver hits the manual timer-off button 30-60 minutes before departure. When pre-heating is desired the carwings app is used to turn climate control on about 10-15 minutes before departure.

My strategy also. I hit the timer override when I first wake-up. It's at or close to 100% when I leave.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

We used to fret over 80% end timer blah blah blah thinking we were protecting the battery. IMO none of it made any difference, and bars are being lost anyway. So now we just plug it in when we get home and fill er up since we aren't on TOU metering.