Just walked out of a CO dealer-what a disgrace

[amtoro]

I wonder what a clear wrap would cost. The protection package seems like a lot for what it covers.

When I was having my windows tinted, I asked and was told that it'd be in the $500 range. The thing is that it does not have a long enough warranty (only 2 years against turning yellow), so it doesn't make sense to put it on.

I had the XPEL film applied to the car; $550 for the entire bumper, charging port, hood, fenders, mirrors, door handle wells and rear bumper. Guaranteed for as long as I own the car.

Go to XPEL.com and find a local installer to request a quote.

 

[thankyouOB]

Even if you were to buy, the $7,500 credit is considered income; so, if you get your credit back in 2013 by filing your 2012 taxes, you need to declare it as income for 2013 when you file your taxes in early 2014. It is just the law.

this is wrong.
completely wrong.

 

[amtoro]

Well, if that is the case, I need to get my $525 back... will ask

 

[thankyouOB]

Well, if that is the case, I need to get my $525 back... will ask

what are you saying?
your ID says you bought the car in 2011, which means you took the rebate or will take the rebate for tax return filed by april 15.
you paid taxes on the rebate you are taking for 2011?

 

[amtoro]

It is a lease, therefore, the $7,500 tax credit comes off the final price including destination, fees, etc, but before any sales tax because you only pay sales tax on the rented portion of the car (monthly payments, down payment, etc) not the total value of the car.

The dealer wrote the $7,500 in the line called "Rebates and other non-cash credits" which is taxable as if it was an allowance from the dealer (like when they announce "$2,000 off any new car this weekend only..." and things like that).

I contacted Nissan Consumer Affairs and they are working on it; if we got wrongly taxed for a tax credit that is not supposed to be considered taxable income, they will have to issue a credit to our account for that amount, about $525 or 7% of $7,500

In all, the line f) in the section 4 of the lease agreement should be the sales tax on the result of your down payment minus the first monthly payment; ie:

Down payment = $5,000
First payment = $380
Sales tax where you live, say 7%

Then, the line f) should be 7% of $5,000-$380 = $323

If they taxed you on the federal tax credit, then that line could say something like $848 (7% of $7,500+$5,000-$380)

Something tells me that it is not just me who got wrongly taxed...

 

[Weatherman]

I contacted Nissan Consumer Affairs and they are working on it; if we got wrongly taxed for a tax credit that is not supposed to be considered taxable income, they will have to issue a credit to our account for that amount, about $525 or 7% of $7,500

Your reference to 7% sounds like sales tax, not income tax.

If so, the lease calculation was handled correctly. The $7,500 tax credit is considered part of the "cap cost reduction" on the lease and is, therefore, subject to whatever your local sales tax may be. In other words, those who lease, unless they are in a state without sales tax or a state where sales tax is waived on EV purchases, will never get the full $7,500 tax credit.


For those of us who buy, the $7,500 tax credit isn't part of the sales transaction, at all. We put forward the full purchase price for the car, and several months later, apply to get all or part of the $7,500 back on our federal income tax return. The tax credit isn't considered "income", and isn't subject to any further tax.

 

[redLEAF]

And of course to further complicate the whole lease versus buy scenario, in some states like IL and I think TX also, you pay sales tax on the entire cost of the car; not just the lease payments which almost always is just a portion of the 'purchase' price unless it's a really looong lease (and then why lease when you could purchase it for less). This was my own argument with the IL EPA because they would not give a rebate for leased vehicles even though the IL state revenue dept. taxed you for the 'whole car'; this sounds like one more advantage (as long as you have enough tax liability) of purchasing versus leasing. Not sure what CO sales tax law on leases is but you need to look at both scenarios --

 

[planet4ever]

I believe Weatherman has that right. Note also that as far as the US government is concerned you didn't get the tax credit at all -- NMAC did. What you got was a manufacturer rebate, which is non-taxable for federal income tax. But, yes, looked at as lease capital investment in the car, you are in for the $10K+, and you must pay sales tax on that amount. At least that is the way it works in California; I'm not sure whether Colorado is the same or not.

Ray

 

[amtoro]

I contacted Nissan Consumer Affairs and they are working on it; if we got wrongly taxed for a tax credit that is not supposed to be considered taxable income, they will have to issue a credit to our account for that amount, about $525 or 7% of $7,500

Your reference to 7% sounds like sales tax, not income tax.

If so, the lease calculation was handled correctly. The $7,500 tax credit is considered part of the "cap cost reduction" on the lease and is, therefore, subject to whatever your local sales tax may be. In other words, those who lease, unless they are in a state without sales tax or a state where sales tax is waived on EV purchases, will never get the full $7,500 tax credit.


For those of us who buy, the $7,500 tax credit isn't part of the sales transaction, at all. We put forward the full purchase price for the car, and several months later, apply to get all or part of the $7,500 back on our federal income tax return. The tax credit isn't considered "income", and isn't subject to any further tax.

There is where the issue arises; for NMAC, the federal tax credit is not taxable, therefore, there is no tax to be passed on to the consumer. The $7,500 tax credit should come off in the section 7 and be included in the Gross Capitalized Cost, not as part of the cap. cost reduction (where it gets taxed)

 

[GREENEV]

There is where the issue arises; for NMAC, the federal tax credit is not taxable, therefore, there is no tax to be passed on to the consumer. The $7,500 tax credit should come off in the section 7 and be included in the Gross Capitalized Cost, not as part of the cap. cost reduction (where it gets taxed)


The official NMAC $7500 tax credit sheet handed to me by the dealer clearly states that the $7500 IS calculated under the CAP COST REDUCTION only. NMAC sees it no other way(according to the official dealer release I saw)

 

[AmpUpCO]

I came to the realization this evening that I am purchasing (Leasing) my 2012 Leaf - in spite of Nissan.



How sad of a statement is that?



In every aspect of the sales process, Nissan has failed horrendously!

To spare those avid Forum Members of a rant, please move on to your next "new" post. You truly do not deserve to listen to this tune played out one more time.

I WILL HAVE MY LEAF.

But I will never ever ever purchase another Nissan vehicle. I sit here in my living room - just days away from picking up my new 2012 Leaf - asking myself why I am putting myself through this ordeal...

I am a Customer Service Representative and I understand the meaning of providing exceptional service to my customers.

As early adopters, you each made allowances for delays, poor communication and lack of information-especially in light of the earthquake and tsunami devastating Japan during the anticipated arrival dates of your 2011 Leafs.

Before posting this note, I scanned the previous posts to see which thread would best fit my subject matter/topic, and honestly, I found more entries than I care to mention...

My question to each of you is, "Why isn't Nissan listening?"

The below concerns are not new and have all been expressed on this forum by members far more eloquent than I, yet Nissan has done little to nothing over the last year to improve on their service to their potential customers.

This is my first experience with Nissan.

I reserved my Leaf on the very first day I could: April 20, 2010.

For me, it was the start of the delivery/order process. And though it was not an official RFQ, I still consider it my order date. So, please do not trivialize my waiting period of 19 months for this vehicle.
(I understand I'm not in a Tier 1 state...)

Since that time, my "Expected Delivery Week" changed no less than 12 times - including over 4 weeks at "Pending" status. I realize each of you went through this uncertainty, so please don't re-hash your experience or excuse it. Simply ask yourself why hasn't Nissan done anything to correct it or improve their communication efforts with their potential customers?

Customer Service:

In my efforts to gain more reliable information, I used the "Chat" feature on the Leaf portal. After 4 commitments from Melissa to investigate the location of my car, I never received a definative response. The best information I could get from her was that my Leaf was "at the port."

Let's pick up the phone:

Oscar seemed truly willing to help. 3 calls to him. He could not identify which port location the car was in - after it had been established that it was "at the port" for 4 weeks prior to my call - according to Melissa. See above.

Thank you Oscar for your telephone calls over 3 consecutive nights to let me know that the car was on a train but you had no idea when it would actually arrive at the Dealership.

Note: This information was provided in an era when packages can be tracked - practically by the mile - from one human hand to another across global distances!

Surely my Dealer of Choice can provide me with the information and service I deserve!

Sadly, no.

I met with my Nissan Certified Leaf Representative, David, a month before the anticipated arrival date. (At that time it was early November for an early December delivery). We had a wonderful visit and I was given every assurance that I'd be called in two weeks with an update on the delivery status of my 2012 Leaf.

Two weeks later...

No call.

I call.

"David is no longer with the company. See Brian."

I see Brian.

"Looks like your car is 'at the port,' we should have it here within a week!"

6 emails to Brian. Only one response. "Sorry for the lack of response. No word yet, but you'll be the first to know!!!"

This Monday. Brian: "Great news! Car here!"

Me: "Awesome! Want you and your Team to have ample time to perform dealer prep. Let's schedule a pick up on Wednesday evening. Waited almost two years, what's a few extra days?"

Brian: "Great! See you then!"

Wednesday Noon: "Brian, confirming our appointment for 6:30. Is car ready?"

"You bet! Just going through final detailing. See you at 6:30."

6:00. Brian: "Sorry. Leaf Certified Mechanic sick yesterday. Car isn't even charged. We'll have to reschedule pick-up."

...

So

...


Why am I still pressing these keys? Why am I going through with this purchase in spite of the fact that on every level of service, Nissan has failed me and every other potential Leaf customer?

Answer: I believe in this car!

With all of the negative posts on this forum - from inaccurate clocks to navigation system failures to brake and charging challenges - I didn't see one negative post on the "Do you regret buying a Leaf" thread. (Granted, that was a few weeks ago...)

The point is, I've been waiting for a practical 100% electric car for over 20 years.

To me the Volt does not compete at all with the Leaf.

It carries around an ICE. So, how does that help efficiency? A Volt owner, now has an electric vehicle that still requires gas, oil, exhaust, belts, transmission, etc. As well as batteries, chargers, plugs, etc.

Two complete systems to accomplish a single task of getting from A to B.

On my soapbox: The Leaf provides us with an alternative to foriegn oil - a clean and efficient method of transportation that helps us reduce greenhouse gases and offers a technology that provides peppy performance with minimal maintenance and minimal overall cost of ownership.

I WILL HAVE MY LEAF!

But sadly, Nissan will not have my loyalty.

 

[cwerdna]

Bummer. Hope you have a good enough experience w/your Leaf that they will eventually earn your loyalty.

I've had two Nissans and got my mom into one. Even I will admit their reliability is inferior to Toyota but my experiences were decent enough that I'd not rule out buying a Leaf or another Nissan, provided it was a product that I was interested in, at least competent in its class and reasonably reliable.

 

[amtoro]

I came to the realization this evening that I am purchasing (Leasing) my 2012 Leaf - in spite of Nissan.

It is just a guess, but could it be that your car stayed at the port for so long due to an error from the dealership?

When the car is unloaded, the status changes to "Pending" because Nissan N.A. sends the invoice to the dealership and the car is not loaded on the transport until the invoice is paid (at that moment, the ownership of the vehicle changes from Nissan N.A. to the dealer).

In my case, the dealership paid the invoice the same day, therefore, the transport, which is usually scheduled in advance of the car arrival to port, was not missed and the car was sent to to its destination according to the original plan.

If your dealership took too long, another transport had to be arranged; it can also be that their LEAF certification gapped (as it has happened to more than one dealer around my area) because the certified mechanic left, because they changed the chief mechanic, because the shop manager was replaced, etc... if ANY of the certified persons at the dealership leaves, the dealership is de-certified until the new person gets its credentials in order. Nissan will not send a vehicle to a dealership while their certification is not current.

I agree that customer service is not the best by far, but maybe, just maybe, your dealership dropped the ball and they never told you.

What about asking for a copy of their invoice? tell them they can black-out everything, that you just want to see the date... You can also call Nissan Consumer Affairs and they WILL find out what happened because they are the ones in charge of YOUR satisfaction. Their number is 1-800 647 7261 option 7

 

[AmpUpCO]

Thank you for your insight, Amtoro, and from the information you've shared about how the process works, the dealer surely may have "dropped the ball."

But that just provides another example of how little Nissan cares about their customers. A telephone call explaining the scenario you just outlined, would have gone a long way with me. At least I would know the reasons for the delay. If I had known that the certification requirement may have contributed to the hold up, perhaps the car could have been redirected to a local certified Leaf dealer in my area.

Frankly, I suspect I could have taken possession of the car in 2011, but for the reasons you note below, and a host of others, that did not happen.

The bottom line is: Customers should be treated with respect and provided with honest information. I was expecting a higher level of integrity and courtesy from Nissan, and I'm disappointed they failed to meet my expectations.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Thank you for your insight, Amtoro, and from the information you've shared about how the process works, the dealer surely may have "dropped the ball."

But that just provides another example of how little Nissan cares about their customers. A telephone call explaining the scenario you just outlined, would have gone a long way with me. At least I would know the reasons for the delay. If I had known that the certification requirement may have contributed to the hold up, perhaps the car could have been redirected to a local certified Leaf dealer in my area.

Frankly, I suspect I could have taken possession of the car in 2011, but for the reasons you note below, and a host of others, that did not happen.

The bottom line is: Customers should be treated with respect and provided with honest information. I was expecting a higher level of integrity and courtesy from Nissan, and I'm disappointed they failed to meet my expectations.

To my way of thinking, you're mixing apples and oranges.

Nissan Corporate dealt with you until you were handed off to the dealer to actually order the car. At THAT point, you were working with the dealer, who is a privately owned business. Nissan can only dictate a little of what they do; Nissan can NOT walk in there and tell them how to run customer service. As someone above said, once the car rolls off the boat, it belongs to the dealer, not Nissan Corporate any more.

While not as extreme, my experience from my leasing dealer was bad enough that I do not take the car to them for anything....no service, nothing. When I turn the leased Leaf in (assuming I don't buy it), it will be turned in to a different dealer. But I'm lucky that in San Diego, there are 6 or 7 different Nissan dealers I can go to. It all depends on the level of commitment your dealer has to being knowledgable of the Leaf and how good they are at providing customer service in general. Again, Nissan Corporate cannot do anything about your dealer not returning phone calls, rescheduling the pick-up, etc.

I LOVE my Leaf and will probably buy another Nissan product (the Leaf was my first Nissan)....I just won't buy from the same dealer as I originally did. And that dealer knows it, too. I had about an hour phone call with my salesperson telling him about how bad his dealer is. HE was an ok guy and was very knowledgeable, but the company he works for is populated with a-holes. I told my sales guy that his BOSS was costing the company (and himself) money through lost sales/service, etc. Not his fault, but if he doesn't forcefully tell his boss to change their policies, then he oughta look for another dealer to work for.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I came to the realization this evening that I am purchasing (Leasing) my 2012 Leaf - in spite of Nissan.

How sad of a statement is that?

working in the front lines of customer service, my response;

it is not sad at all. you got what you want. most people feel the exact same way you do over dozens of products, services and companies.

companies that have less than a 50% "acceptable" rating far outnumber companies that rate excellent more than 90% of the time. ya, thats right, 1 in 10 customers will hang up not satisfied. that is the norm. why is that?

what you are a victim of is technology. you have become accustomed to having things like yesterday. now is not good enough. we have all become that way.

we go to Amazon, order something, expect it to be free shipping delivered tomorow

do you remember how it used to be? go to local store, VERY limited selection, pay more for the product simply because there was no option 2.

or

order from catalog which meant either filling out order form, sending it in with check or in some cases, calling and talking with someone on the phone. that usually was not an option unless you had a store card. i grew up with EXTENSIVE experience in this regard.

being a military brat and being stationed in places like Alaska, Panama, etc. we spent years literally ordering everything we bought out of the Sears Catalog and we got what we ordered 2-4 weeks later and shipping was a fortune. if you had a Sears Card, you could charge it, pay it off in a year (which is what EVERYONE did) if you didnt, send in a check.

but now we have technology and it has made our lives MUCH cooler. i am able to shop for bargains nationwide in less time than it takes to microwave a TV dinner

but that has escalated our expectations. we call, we ask questions and if we dont get the answer we want, we blame the person on the other end of the phone.

every day i talk with people who think Apple, Google, LG, RIM or whoever is stupid because of their software design and the customer knows better despite the fact they are calling in because they dont know something.

but 2/3rd of most peoples issues is they simply cannot...

ah never mind, it DOES NOT MATTER!!

you got your Leaf!!

 

[GREENEV]

I hate to tell you,but the manufacturer is ultimately responsible for poor dealer behavior. They wholeheartidly represent the brand-Nissan. The dealer sets the bar for the manufacturer. Whatever goes wrong at the dealer level will and should fall back on the manufacturer. Manufacturer can pull or cancel a dealership in heartbeat, just wished it happened more often.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

That is true but how often have you seen it happen?
My sister works for Ford and they get regional starts on customer feedback because it stretches their bonus if they make top 3. They have one dealer that has been censored a half dozen times had several active cases with the AG and they are still selling cars

 

[KJD]

Well I hate to tell you this GREENEV, but if you think the dealer was bad, you should have taken you business elsewhere. That would have hurt them more than any letter you write to Nissan.

You are the one that enabled that dealer to make money off of bad service. Think about that for a while.

I hate to tell you,but the manufacturer is ultimately responsible for poor dealer behavior. They wholeheartidly represent the brand-Nissan. The dealer sets the bar for the manufacturer. Whatever goes wrong at the dealer level will and should fall back on the manufacturer. Manufacturer can pull or cancel a dealership in heartbeat, just wished it happened more often.

 

[SmokeMaker]

None of this makes sense, company's and dealerships are money driven. The dealership makes money when you drive your car over there curb not when they order the car.

This has "not" happened to a lot of people so I'm thinking there delivery process somewhat works for most people.

IMO you had a string of bad luck with your delivery. Even good company's screw up some times, and bad company's deliver there product on time by accident.

Don't buy any lotto tickets until you see a change in you luck.

Good luck with your car