LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

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I get it just fine. Perhaps I'm intelligent enough to actually understand that and accept it.

Also, maintaining a charge in the 70-80% area is good for a battery that is going to sit unused for an extended period of time. A battery that gets cycled daily should get balanced daily.
 
NavyCuda said:
I get it just fine. Perhaps I'm intelligent enough to actually understand that and accept it.

Also, maintaining a charge in the 70-80% area is good for a battery that is going to sit unused for an extended period of time. A battery that gets cycled daily should get balanced daily.

If you guys are splitting hairs, it's better to have the battery at 50% for storage.

The balancing is automatic when charged up, so there's nothing for you to concern yourself with as an operator. Perhaps charge to 100% monthly is fine, but not required.
 
Some balancing does take place at 80% charge. I can see all three lights lit and unblinking for several minutes when it reaches end of charge at 80%.
 
I really would love to pull the trigger on a 60kWh Leaf, I wouldn't even care how much I lose on my 2015. I'd probably just give it to my dad.
 
TonyWilliams said:
NavyCuda said:
I get it just fine. Perhaps I'm intelligent enough to actually understand that and accept it.

Also, maintaining a charge in the 70-80% area is good for a battery that is going to sit unused for an extended period of time. A battery that gets cycled daily should get balanced daily.

If you guys are splitting hairs, it's better to have the battery at 50% for storage.

The balancing is automatic when charged up, so there's nothing for you to concern yourself with as an operator. Perhaps charge to 100% monthly is fine, but not required.

If you don't need that "last mile" of range, your best bet for longevity is run your SOC between 20 to 80%. Keep in mind, time degradation is something no TMS can address and Li has roughly a 10-12 year life... In a LEAF that means "replace or renew" In a Tesla, that likely means " LEAF-like" range...
 
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).
 
Reddy said:
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).
At 20 MPH? ;)
 
Stoaty said:
Reddy said:
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).
At 20 MPH? ;)
He didn't specify, but I'd guess it was probably around 40 mph (7.5 hrs so easily fit in a work day).
 
Reddy said:
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).

I'm glad to hear he thinks the 2018 Leaf will have 250 miles of range. Assuming that's actual EPA range, it will be a strong competitor. It's better than the rumor that the 200+ mile Leaf won't arrive until 2020 or later.
 
I remember when I bought my 2011 Leaf. The sales pitch was 100 miles. Turns out to be more like 60 miles in the foothills at 55 mph. I take range quotes as always being exaggerated, especially from Nissan dealers.
 
fotajoye said:
I remember when I bought my 2011 Leaf. The sales pitch was 100 miles. Turns out to be more like 60 miles in the foothills at 55 mph. I take range quotes as always being exaggerated, especially from Nissan dealers.

My 2015 says 172km in the lie-o-meter, but driving it like a normal car I can only safely get 100km out of it. The best I've managed to squeeze being as economical as I can is 160km.
 
New 24kWh pack (2014 Leaf) will result in 125km / 77 miles
at 92km/h (90% of the trip, average 80km/h) (90% at 57mph, average 50mph).
With minimal AC/heat and 90-95% at cruise control.
This will use 98% of the battery when new, aka 21,7-22,1kWh.
Done this trip multiple times. Always the same result. 1-2% change with wind.
Elevation, flat.

Guessometer is usually around 25% too optimistic :lol:
The more precise guessometer is hidden in the menus.
Press "I'm f*cked button" on the steering wheel to see range bubble on the map.
There are two range estimations: white and gray. That white one is usually less than 5% wrong.
 
My Leaf usually runs 115km/hour on single lane highways and 138km/hour on dual/tripple lane. HVAC on auto set to 19C
 
Sharing next leaf platform three ways to reduce costs.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1460U1
 
Stoaty said:
Reddy said:
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).
At 20 MPH? ;)

constant speed means deduct 15 to 25% depending on traffic conditions
 
Reddy said:
OK, just another dealer rumor, but..... He said that the 250 mi Leaf will not be available until Dec 2017 as a 2018 model. :cry: He also said that in testing it had traveled more than 300 mi on a circular track (I'm guessing indoor test track).

yeah, definitely a rumor. I choose to believe the one Nissan put out last year touting a mid year 2018 release....
 
NavyCuda said:
I don't understand why people only charge to 80%... One of the most important things is making sure the cells are properly balanced and this is true of all battery types.

I also don't understand why people make such a big deal about degradation, it's a fact of life with all battery types. It's a fact of life with a number of things. In the lighting world, the lumin output and loss is clearly identified on the packaging. With the Leaf, acceptable loss from the manufacturers stand point is clearly identified by the warranty. Nissan has no way to know how the end user will care for the battery, they must set a threshold to decide when to replace the battery.

The whole concept of battery degradation, failure rates and lifespans has been known for over a century, at least with lead acid batteries.

Expecting a perfect battery, with little or no loss is naive.

It had nothing to do with knowing not to depend on the warranty, that is frankly a stupid argument. It was knowing that I must consider the maximum rate of degradation that isn't covered by the warranty. That's called being an educated consumer without having unrealistic expectations of the manufacturer. If my battery degrades beyond the rate specified by Nissan, within the allotted time frame, they will replace it. It's simple math. I don't remember the numbers any more, but if Nissan says 35% degradation is acceptable by the end of my warranty and my battery has degraded 34%, I'm not going to complain or even attempt a warranty claim.

Batteries have a finite lifespan. They are a consumable. I've managed to get 15+ years out of one of my 12v AGM batteries, and barely 4 years out of another. The one that lasted 4 years sat the majority of its lifespan and gave up when I tried to press it into daily use. The 15+ year battery was used everyday from new and even managed to handle being in a car with no working voltage regulator. It was in a bad spot and the ground clamp would come off every time I did donuts and the voltage would spike to 20+VDC, but when it was hooked up would never go above 16VDC. It was an old clapped out Supra that I didn't care about. Suffice to say, Optima AGM batteries are the only ones I use now. I gave that battery away with that car, last I heard it's still in use. That's an exception though.

In terms of fleet maintenance, I replaced batteries every 3-5 years even if they still tested okay.

The simple answer is the cost of an automotive battery pack replacement versus something like a phone or other small electronic device. I have been considering the Leaf, but given the sheer number of problems these cars seem to have with their batteries, I can see why people have issues. If I buy a car, any car, I expect it to last. If we are to accept these battery degradations as given (I'm basing that off of what I've seen on this site), it would be like telling someone to buy a gasoline powered car and be ready to replace the engine after three to five years because it's just normal for it to wear out that fast - which is rubbish. Hence why vehicles come with a warranty and that is to help offset people's hesitation or concern about the vehicle they are buying. Everything is going to break down eventually, but I can only assume the typical automotive repair (I used to work on cars) is going to be negligible when compared to replacing an entire battery pack in these cars. For me personally, I'm not dropping $30,000 - $40,000 for a car that isn't going to deliver what it's promising after two or three years because the manufacturer cannot be bothered to implement a battery system like other manufacturers have already done and that is to provide liquid heating/cooling. I'm talking to people with first generation Volts (2011) who have nearly 100,000 miles on their cars with little to no battery degradation. Yet every time I come on to this board there is thread after thread of people complaining about lost bars and that's just unacceptable given the relative newness of the cars. I would understand if the capacity began degrading by significant amounts after say 5 years or more, but not people with cars that are only two or three years old. I looked at a '13 a while back that had dropped three bars already and it was only two years old at the time. That's just shoddy engineering in my book and I'm really surprised that Nissan hasn't provided a fix to this yet besides simply offering a larger battery pack after what? Five to six years worth of production? Again, I understand batteries will wear out over time, but that's the key there - over *time* and not two or three years after buying an expensive car.

Purely my opinion mind you ;)
 
Its starting to look like the next LEAF will be a bargain option with a 40 kwh pack. So not really in direct competition with either the Bolt or the T3
 
Nissan may offer both a Leaf and a Zoe clone.
.
In September, Nissan was reported to be considering a subcompact electric car that shared underpinnings with the Zoe. It would slot below the Leaf, but not directly replace it.
.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107792_nissan-and-renault-to-share-common-electric-car-platform-in-future
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106301_nissan-electric-subcompact-below-leaf-in-future-electric-car-lineup
.
 
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