Leaf charging info.

[EVDRIVER]

Sounds like they may offer a last minute charger upgrade fee? Perhaps not but having the 6.6 is a BIG deal for some and those that will opportunity charge, this is huge for longer drives where you NEED to charge and return. Two hours at 6.6 is a big difference! I wish I did not sell my PFC50, that would be great for long road trips at 12KW.

 

[evnow]

Sounds like they may offer a last minute charger upgrade fee? Perhaps not but having the 6.6 is a BIG deal for some and those that will opportunity charge, this is huge for longer drives where you NEED to charge and return. Two hours at 6.6 is a big difference! I wish I did not sell my PFC50, that would be great for long road trips at 12KW.

Actually, it would be 8 hours @ 3.3 & 4 hours @ 6.6. (since we need about 24 kwh in total - ofcource the charging rate won't be constant).

 

[garygid]

It is clear to me that we need to make new all-state national electrical-use laws that will permit the portable, plug-in use of the 240-volt EVSE at any available amperage (15, 30, 50 are common) that the car will take.

Safety is not really an issue, or we would not be permitted to gas up with the possibility of static sparks, spraying gas all over everything, driving away with the filling nozzle still in, etc.

So, WHO has a vested interest in keeping us from using the ALREADY-EXISTING, in-almost-every-home 240 volt infrastructure?

RISE UP and DEMAND this right.

You can plug in/out the clothes dryer, but you are not allowed to use the same connection to charge YOUR CAR?
There is no GOOD reason for this totally stupid rule in the USA.
Unless, ... "OIL" does not want "EV" to be a success.

 

[garygid]

If every potential Leaf purchaser informed Nissan that they will ONLY accept installation (or delivery) of a plug-in, portable EVSE, BEFORE they will buy the car, then we might have something significant happen.

NOW is the time to let them know.

 

[EVDRIVER]

If every potential Leaf purchaser informed Nissan that they will ONLY accept installation (or delivery) of a plug-in, portable EVSE, BEFORE they will buy the car, then we might have something significant happen.

NOW is the time to let them know.

The point of the silly box is safety. GFI circuits sometimes have issue with EV chargers and this box is a way to insure power is only applied to the cord once it is plugged into the vehicle. This prevents dropping a live, high-current/voltage cord into water or in something that could be conductive or having it severed thus increasing safety and limiting liability for all parties. Note that a dryer uses an outlet not a long, live extension cord. These boxes should be low cost and they are certainly being over priced at this time. If Nissan does not require the box then make your own configuration as I have so many times before with AVCON and other adaptors. I fully intend to build my own adaptor "junction" box for traveling and using dryer outlets- EASY.

I have seen strange cord incidents and it makes sense for the safety features of the box but they should be about $400 max without the cord. Besides, a little HV is good once in a while, I have felt the wrath of 280V AC and DC

 

[garygid]

If people could not understand (sufficiently) and accept the SAFETY issues (dangers) of fueling, we would not allow gas-pump fueling.

1. Where is the static-spark preventer?
2. The "immobilizer" to keep the car from driving off with the nozzle still in?
3. The "locking" nozzle to prevent pumping gas unless the nozzle is inserted into an international-standard "fuel port"?

On and on ... safety is not REALLY the issue, it is the EXCUSE.

 

[mitch672]

If every potential Leaf purchaser informed Nissan that they will ONLY accept installation (or delivery) of a plug-in, portable EVSE, BEFORE they will buy the car, then we might have something significant happen.

NOW is the time to let them know.

The point of the silly box is safety. GFI circuits sometimes have issue with EV chargers and this box is a way to insure power is only applied to the cord once it is plugged into the vehicle. This prevents dropping a live, high-current/voltage cord into water or in something that could be conductive or having it severed thus increasing safety and limiting liability for all parties. Note that a dryer uses an outlet not a long, live extension cord. These boxes should be low cost and they are certainly being over priced at this time. If Nissan does not require the box then make your own configuration as I have so many times before with AVCON and other adaptors. I fully intend to build my own adaptor "junction" box for traveling and using dryer outlets- EASY.

I have seen strange cord incidents and it makes sense for the safety features of the box but they should be about $400 max without the cord. Besides, a little HV is good once in a while, I have felt the wrath of 280V AC and DC

Sounds like we should be trying to source some J-1772 EVSE-end adapters, for the DIY people, who want to build their own. I predict finding and buying those wil be failry difficult, most likley, with the demand from the EVSE mrfs.

 

[Randy]

They might cost more than we'd like, but I will make a mental note to try and purchase another 120v charging adapter with the J1772 when I buy the car for future DIY projects. It might be nice to have a second one anyways...

 

[EVDRIVER]

They might cost more than we'd like, but I will make a mental note to try and purchase another 120v charging adapter with the J1772 when I buy the car for future DIY projects. It might be nice to have a second one anyways...

I would guess one will come with the car or offered. I would also bet these will be on ebay soon enough. Don't sweat the plugs folks, there will be options for sure.

 

[garygid]

I believe the Level 1 (120v 15a) "EVSE" will be included. As one drives the Leaf away, there "must" be some way to charge it (I hope).

I am trying to find a LEGAL way to do 240v 15/30 amp "charging" with a fully-legal EVSE.

Yes, I can easily make something that will work, but it would not be "listed", thus not legal.

 

[garygid]

Why does the "charging hose" (the cable from the EVSE to the J1772 plug for the car) un-plug from the "front" of the AV EVSE unit? (Yes, I think it does.)

Probably to satisfy article 635-19, requiring a disconnect of power to the cable and car if the cable is "snagged" or pulled "enough".

 

[evnow]

Here are the Volt chargers ...

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/gm-shows-off-120v-and-240v-chargers-for-2011-chevy-volt/

 

[garygid]

Looks like 120v Level 2 with a probably-simple in-line "EVSE-controller".

 

[mitch672]

That's all the Volt will need, because even though it has a 16kw battery, GM is only using 8kw of it's capacity, so even a 120v 12A circuit should be able to replace this 8kw in a little over 5.5 hours

 

[planet4ever]

You can plug in/out the clothes dryer, but you are not allowed to use the same connection to charge YOUR CAR?
There is no GOOD reason for this totally stupid rule in the USA.
Unless, ... "OIL" does not want "EV" to be a success.

So, how often do you plug and unplug your dryer? I remember reading somewhere that those 240V outlets are designed for only a few hundred plug-in cycles. I'm not an engineer, but I can imagine there are springy metal strips involved. If one were to break off, it seems likely there could be sparks between the plug and the jack, and that means heat, and that could mean ...

On that last line, Gary, let's pretend you didn't say that. Wouldn't want to be tagged as a conspiracy theorist, now, would we?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I've lost the point of this thread. Is it that folks want to fashion their own charging stations for less than $2200?

Even if you could just buy the 1772 plug on ebay it may not be as simple as making up a cord for it to plug into a dryer outlet. The charger in the car may not engage until it does the signaling handshake with the unit on the wall.

Electrical codes are what they are for good reason. You can think of a lot of ways somebody could be hurt or killed waving an energized plug around.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I believe the Level 1 (120v 15a) "EVSE" will be included. As one drives the Leaf away, there "must" be some way to charge it (I hope).

I am trying to find a LEGAL way to do 240v 15/30 amp "charging" with a fully-legal EVSE.

Yes, I can easily make something that will work, but it would not be "listed", thus not legal.

No but I won't tell the extension cord police.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I've lost the point of this thread. Is it that folks want to fashion their own charging stations for less than $2200?

Even if you could just buy the 1772 plug on ebay it may not be as simple as making up a cord for it to plug into a dryer outlet. The charger in the car may not engage until it does the signaling handshake with the unit on the wall.

Electrical codes are what they are for good reason. You can think of a lot of ways somebody could be hurt or killed waving an energized plug around.

Once a guy broke in my house and I waived my charging cord at him, he acted like I had a shotgun pointed at him and he bolted out. The primary difference between the box and a cord is that the box is only energized when the cord is in. This is the same as the avcon box which I bypassed by making a pilot circuit with $2.00 in parts from radio shack. The issue with a live cord is droping it in water that is deep enough to cross the contacts,etc. If the circuit is GFI and works with the charger then it should not be an issue. If you have pets that like to chew on things, get the box because a long 240 cord may not agree with your cats mouth, unless you are not a cat person of course.


The point of dryer outlets not being designed to be used repeatedly is true but in the case of of a modified cord it would only be unplugged from the car. If you take it along and use it then it's only occasional use in other outlets. I have three outlets I use, two for EVs and on for a welder, all in the garage and all capable of at least 50A.

Warning- do not do the following as it can be dangerous and even kill you! I also have a cord for emergencies with clap ends I can clamp to panel bindings to get 240 where there is no outlet if I am stuck in a remote place and a dual outlet pigtail that gives me 240 from two 120 outlets on separate circuits.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I've lost the point of this thread. Is it that folks want to fashion their own charging stations for less than $2200?

Even if you could just buy the 1772 plug on ebay it may not be as simple as making up a cord for it to plug into a dryer outlet. The charger in the car may not engage until it does the signaling handshake with the unit on the wall.

Electrical codes are what they are for good reason. You can think of a lot of ways somebody could be hurt or killed waving an energized plug around.

Once a guy broke in my house and I waived my charging cord at him, he acted like I had a shotgun pointed at him and he bolted out. The primary difference between the box and a cord is that the box is only energized when the cord is in. This is the same as the avcon box which I bypassed by making a pilot circuit with $2.00 in parts from radio shack. The issue with a live cord is droping it in water that is deep enough to cross the contacts,etc. If the circuit is GFI and works with the charger then it should not be an issue. If you have pets that like to chew on things, get the box because a long 240 cord may not agree with your cats mouth, unless you are not a cat person of course.


The point of dryer outlets not being designed to be used repeatedly is true but in the case of of a modified cord it would only be unplugged from the car. If you take it along and use it then it's only occasional use in other outlets. I have three outlets I use, two for EVs and on for a welder, all in the garage and all capable of at least 50A.

Warning- do not do the following as it can be dangerous and even kill you! I also have a cord for emergencies with clap ends I can clamp to panel bindings to get 240 where there is no outlet if I am stuck in a remote place and a dual outlet pigtail that gives me 240 from two 120 outlets on separate circuits.

Don't get me wrong, $2200 is a rip for what that thing is. It would be interesting to know what the box itself sells for vs how much of that figure is being chalked up to installation. I don't have to tell you if there's a slot open in the panel the materials to install it should be under $20, $50 tops if you're using conduit/flex and you're putting it on the other side of the garage, plus an hour or so of labor.

What do you mean by "pilot circuit", are you referring to the signaling? Can you really get the parts at radio shack to make that for $2?

One thing we don't know in any of this is what the car "demands" in the way of an input. Maybe the charger won't engage if it sees voltage before the handshake is complete. It might just display a message "charging station problem, contact your nissan dealer"

 

[EVDRIVER]

The signal or pilot circuits usually sent a LV signal, etc to let the box know all is well, etc. The avcon boxes needed to now the type of pack also, if flooded nicad then fans go on, if no fans at the station then no chrge applied. I built a signal circuit which is a couple resistors and a cap I think, that told the avcon, lead pack. There are no complex protocols so there wil be hacks posted or one can read the spec.


The boxes are a complete rip off, yes. In a while you will be able to buy these with the cord for about $600 I bet. The ones rated for outdoor use are more costly. To put it into perspective, a 4kw charger, not box but charger recently cost $2k. I'm sure non-UL models from china will pop up on bay, takes about a week to copy over there