Leaf is too successful! Nissan needs to step up.

[harrier]

You heard it here first. Nissan is selling too many Leafs. And Nissan needs to step up and install chargers.

I live in Marin County, CA, and I drive 2x week to Palo Alto, CA (45.1mi). I can make it down, and about 1/2 way back on a full battery, so I make a policy to arrange at least 4 hours of meetings, then I charge in one of the three downtown parking garages that provide Level II charging. In the last week, my strategy has collapsed. Every charger has been occupied by a Leaf (one Volt) at every garage. I was almost stranded! Even my backup plan, a Level III charger at a VW office building in Belmont, failed when the Blink charger there was on the fritz - three Leafs and their owners spent 20 minutes trying to get someone to bring it back online in desperation. We were saved only by a new Level III charger that came on line a bit south of here.

Nissan, please take note. We, loyal Leaf-ers, took the risk, and we have endured the pain of range anxiety on behalf of building a better future for our country and hopefully for Nissan. Now it is your turn: INSTALL LEVEL III CHARGERS!

It is unreasonable that there are not at least 1 Level III charger at every Nissan dealership that sells Leafs. Not Level II, Level III. Level II is fine if I am parking for the day for work, but if I can't find a location near where I am working, then I need a 20 minute charge, not a 6 hour one.

We are in a critical time now. Nissan and Tesla have proven that electric cars are real cars. But my own experience is that I would not recommend a Leaf to anyone simply because sometimes you need to recharge on the road, and the charging networks are simply not adequately developed. I am on the verge of selling my Leaf simply because it is too disruptive. Nissan could go a long way by providing emergency level III charging, and maybe even find a way to connect with their unique network of forward-thinking customers.

 

[mwalsh]

I'll agree that more infrastructure is needed. However, drivers are also misusing the limited infrastructure already here. Existing chargers, while they are so few, should only be employed IF you NEED the charge to get someplace else. They should not be used (yet) to charge just for the hell of it, or to get a prime parking space!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It is unreasonable that there are not at least 1 Level III charger at every Nissan dealership that sells Leafs. Not Level II, Level III. Level II is fine if I am parking for the day for work, but if I can't find a location near where I am working, then I need a 20 minute charge, not a 6 hour one.

I couldn't agree more. Here in Central NY, we don't have ANY L3 chargers. That Nissan installs L2 at their dealerships is almost insulting. Nobody is going to sit at a Nissan dealership for 7 hours while their car charges.

I tend to argue the other way, though. If Nissan did what you propose, they could sell A LOT more Leafs. They could have beaten Tesla to the punch at providing a nation-wide L3 network without requiring leasing/buying any new land.

 

[adric22]

I'll agree that more infrastructure is needed. However, drivers are also misusing the limited infrastructure already here. Existing chargers, while they are so few, should only be employed IF you NEED the charge to get someplace else. They should not be used (yet) to charge just for the hell of it, or to get a prime parking space!

I disagree, totally. There are very few chargers in my part of town. The ones we have stay virtually empty and unused 99.9% of the time. So I always make an effort to plug in even if I do not need the charge just so people won't think these stations were a waste of money.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

we have a TON of L2's around town and i have only seen other cars charging occasionally with exception of a few state buildings. once i hit the Dept of Ecology which is across street from movie theater and got the last of 4 charging spots!

but we have the Olympic Gateway Park downtown Oly right at walking trail with 8 units and i have never seen more than 2 charging there at a one time.

what we need is more DCFC's

 

[RegGuheert]

I have to admit at first I was somewhat excited to hear that L3 chargers are coming to the Washington, DC area starting this year, but after seeing eVgo's business model I'm less enthused. I don't pay for a subscription to Shell or Exxon, so why does eVgo think I want to pay them a subscription. I will state that I don't! Blink's business model works fine for me, though.

So, back on topic, I agree having a DC quick charger network at or near Nissan dealerships around the country would greatly enhance the appeal of the LEAF. Such a move would extend the range of the LEAFs since there is a Nissan dealership in each reasonably-sized town and the spacing is nearly perfect.

OTOH, I do expect the reliability of L3 chargers to be an issue for the next decade or so. Extending our range is great, but if we depend on a particular charger to get us home, a broken charger becomes a big deal. My experience with power electronics tells me that the MTBF on a 50-kW unit will be somewhat low until it gets engineered and manufactured to extremely high quality levels similar to what has been done with the LEAF. Add to that problems these units have had with their charging connectors, etc., I expect the teething pains will continue for some time to come.

If Nissan does make a move in this area, hopefully they can come up with a very rugged and reliable unit.

 

[mdh]

It is a chicken and egg thing for sure. I am starting to see this at SF airport...

 

[mazdaboi]

Here on the East Coast the ECOtality program has boomed, We are seeing more and more L2's being installed at peoples homes with the owners posting their charge stations on Plugshare. Yes there are numerous L2 Free chargers around, however still nobody will sit at Walgreens or a Dealership for an extended period of time. Private business' and gas stations in fact need to understand the installation of 1 L3 station will see a great return (especially in the D.C. area as we have NONE). I just have the feeling when one pops up, the bueiness owners see the availability to gain customers and its use will not be ignored as other business owners may push the wallet to install L3's near them.

Cmon Bestbuy, Walmart, Target, all claim they support being green.....lets see some L3's!!!!

Think the closest L3's are in Tenn. Lucky EV owners there.

 

[philipscoggins]

Think the closest L3's are in Tenn. Lucky EV owners there.

Heh
I live 75 miles outside of Nashville & there are 3 Level 3 chargers between home & Nashville.

Oh yeah & 1 in Nashville, although it's about 10 miles away from downtown.

Now to just buy my LEAF....

Philip

 

[ericsf]

I'll agree that more infrastructure is needed. However, drivers are also misusing the limited infrastructure already here. Existing chargers, while they are so few, should only be employed IF you NEED the charge to get someplace else. They should not be used (yet) to charge just for the hell of it, or to get a prime parking space!

I disagree, totally. There are very few chargers in my part of town. The ones we have stay virtually empty and unused 99.9% of the time. So I always make an effort to plug in even if I do not need the charge just so people won't think these stations were a waste of money.

Do whatever you want in TX, but don't do that if you ever come around here in the San Francisco area.

 

[NYLEAF]

Think the closest L3's are in Tenn. Lucky EV owners there.

The nearest DC Quick Charger to me is actually in a foreign country. It's the one at Mitsubishi's Canada offices in Toronto, Ontario.

That's kind of sad, Nissan.

 

[Caracalover]

I tend not to drive the Leaf if I will need a charge to return. I have another vehicle, and while it hurts me to drive it, That is what they(ICE's) are good at - highway miles.

The chargers that the OP is talking about - are they free? What price point would prevent a PIP or Volt from using it? I suggested $1 an hour would work to the Blink representive in Santa Monica the other day.

If the charge is no charge, you should expect not to get a charge. There tends to be a line up for free things.

If the price is high enough, only those that need the charger will use the charger. It is a fine line to find. Putting in chargers is not an inexpensive proposition, so if you want a dedicated charger, consider making a deal to put one in that is reserved for you. Otherwise, the EV experience is not quite ready for the OP, which is a sad reality.

 

[Caracalover]

Oh, and when I walked in to work today a co-worker saud the Leaf sales were up 400 percent! I haven't seen that news report yet, but I don't find it hard to believe with a Lease as low as 139!

 

[TomT]

We do the same. The charging network is just not reliable enough if you must have a charge to complete the trip and you aren't willing or able to spend a large amount of time looking for alternatives if your primary fails.

I tend not to drive the Leaf if I will need a charge to return. I have another vehicle, and while it hurts me to drive it, That is what they(ICE's) are good at - highway miles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i used to do the same as well, but with QC around (ignore this post if you dont have it but if you did you would know why i harp on it constantly) its simply saves waaay too much money right now since they are still free. if its 3 QCs or less to get somewhere, we are there in the LEAF. longer than that, its the Prius but did do Portland with 5 stops (we only did half charges on all but one though)

but its $20 in gas or free. that adds up

 

[mazdaboi]

Think the closest L3's are in Tenn. Lucky EV owners there.

The nearest DC Quick Charger to me is actually in a foreign country. It's the one at Mitsubishi's Canada offices in Toronto, Ontario.

That's kind of sad, Nissan.

Well its not so much Nissan's issue. Yes they should promote more, but its private business' and the DOE that needs to push the East Coast to get them. There are plenty of grants through DOE ans ECOTality to get a L2 and a big discount off the L3's. Think its like $10k back.

So we just need to push for more people complaining and wanting them and maybe that will change the EV atmosphere?!?

 

[ebill3]

We do the same. The charging network is just not reliable enough if you must have a charge to complete the trip and you aren't willing or able to spend a large amount of time looking for alternatives if your primary fails.

I tend not to drive the Leaf if I will need a charge to return. I have another vehicle, and while it hurts me to drive it, That is what they(ICE's) are good at - highway miles.

Yep. Been there, done that. Get to the Blink you are counting on and find it inop. Now it is sweat a bit hoping your alternate is working and not in use.

 

[mazdaboi]

We do the same. The charging network is just not reliable enough if you must have a charge to complete the trip and you aren't willing or able to spend a large amount of time looking for alternatives if your primary fails.

I tend not to drive the Leaf if I will need a charge to return. I have another vehicle, and while it hurts me to drive it, That is what they(ICE's) are good at - highway miles.

Yep. Been there, done that. Get to the Blink you are counting on and find it inop. Now it is sweat a bit hoping your alternate is working and not in use.

Look at plugshare, charge point, semacharge and there is another app on mobile devices available to search for plug-in stations. I have been successful so far. Plugshare allows posting of phone numbers so you can call ahead. Planning a long 200mile trip here soon so planning ahead will help me. I am confident I can make it in the leaf with a 3-4hr lay over here or there for charging. Should be fun!!

 

[hill]

I'll agree that more infrastructure is needed. However, drivers are also misusing the limited infrastructure already here. Existing chargers, while they are so few, should only be employed IF you NEED the charge to get someplace else. They should not be used (yet) to charge just for the hell of it, or to get a prime parking space!

Good luck trying to fix THAT issue. :?

......... snip ....... I disagree, totally. There are very few chargers in my part of town. The ones we have stay virtually empty and unused 99.9% of the time. So I always make an effort to plug in even if I do not need the charge just so people won't think these stations were a waste of money.

When you say "virtually empty & unused 99.9% of the time ... that'd require you to be on location 23 & 3/4 hours out of 24. What are you really talking ... weekends? week days? mornings? evenings? Are your area's chargers free or payola? Because I do note that the Walmart chargers are all but abandoned in So Cal, once they started requiring (high cost) payment. It drove the cheep skates right out of there lickety split.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Open up the Blink online map (or better still your iPhone app) right now and browse the 100 odd L2 stations in this metro area. Find out and report back here in this forum on how many are used at any given time? Now try this experiment at different times of the day and week. I bet not more than 4 or 5 of those 100+ stations would be in use at any time, even on weekends