Leaf's Battery in Below 0F weather, arctic blast this week...

[voltamps]

My '22 Leaf SV+ owner's manual (who reads those?!?) says to keep a Leaf plugged in if gets below around 0F outside or so. Mine is the 62 kWH battery, and instructions for the 40 kWH batteries are similar.

Bottom line: Below 0F, plug it in so it can warm itself.
I'm simplifying a little what the algorithms actually do in response to very cold temperatures. Saying "Just plug the thing in if you see or expect Below 0F temperatures outside" ..., is a good rule of thumb. Arctic Blast this week for a lot of the country!

One interesting difference (anybody know why?) is that the 40 kWH battery does not need to be plugged in while below zero, if SOC is at least 15%, while the 62kWH battery will not operate it's battery warmer at all unless it's plugged in, regardless of battery SOC.

Anybody know the technical reasons here? What happens to a battery that hits a bit below zero and freezes? Surely this has happened a lot in the 11 years Leafs (Leaves?) have been running around.

 

[knightmb]

The theory is it behaves like the 40 kwh, it will heat the battery plugged into AC power or not, but no one has verified just yet.

 

[WetEV]

How could someone verify that there is a battery heater installed?

My dad lives in Colorado and has a 2019 S, and is somewhat concerned with the Arctic blast. He is not sure if his LEAF has the battery heater.

Is this listed on the Monroney sticker?
Other way to verify?

 

[jjeff]

A couple of thoughts. One would be to see if the SOC% dropped when parked outside in sub-zero temps. If it does I'd think it would mean it has some sort of battery warmer. Unless there is some sort of draw and a significant one at that you shouldn't really see the main battery drop SOC% over a period of a week or less.
Another thing the old Leafs did anyway is one of the blue 3-charging LEDs on the dash would blink, telling you the battery warmer is on, even if not plugged in this will happen. Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery, so don't let that confuse you. I'm not positive which LED tells you what, maybe someone else knows and again this is true for the older Leafs, not sure if the newer ones are the same.
Both my older Leafs had a blue light blinking this morning even though neither was plugged in, heating up the battery I'd think in these stupid cold temps. I currently have both on a 12v battery tender but will plug them both into an EVSE tonight to keep the traction battery topped off. I left them in the 80's percent SOC and wouldn't be surprised to see them in the 60s by tonight as the bitter cold is supposed to be on all day and beyond, only getting worse

 

[voltamps]

My dad lives in Colorado and has a 2019 S, and is somewhat concerned with the Arctic blast. He is not sure if his LEAF has the battery heater.

It has the battery heater. A 2019 Leaf S (40 kWH) has it standard.

If it was a Leaf S+, it has the 62kWH battery, and the rules are similar for what you do. (Plug it in during cold weather, bottom line.)

Experts on this forum check me on all these "facts". I tried to pull them mostly from the Owners Manual, so prob right. Any other technical insights?

The 40 kWH battery is kinda "better" than the 62kWH big one in this respect, since you don't technically have to plug it in to warm it, as long as you have over 15% battery charge remaining. Now, it could drop below that 15% during the night, I guess, but you can make sure it has a full charge before the Arctic Blast hits Colorado (or elsewhere in the U.S. & Canada). A 62kWH must be plugged in, which stinks, I think, since that removes a strategy of simply charging to 100% and letting it warm itself.

 

[voltamps]

One thing probably nice is that, during charging, as electrons hit the cells, there is a small warming effect that might just help keep it warm enough so that the built-in heaters never have to kick on. But you can't depend on that, so simply keep it plugged in at all times in super-cold weather.

Simplifying: A rule is to keep it plugged in during a cold snap, when outside temperatures are below Zero F. This covers both batteries, both the 40 & 62 kWH types. Sure the 40 kWH will warm itself without being plugged in, but not if the charge gets below 15%, so don't take a chance that will happen.

 

[voltamps]

Check the 2019 Owner's Manual: Pages EV-4 through EV-8 "EV Overview" section.
https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2019/2019-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf

What do people in or near Canada & Alaska do? They face this constantly in the winter.

 

[WetEV]

Argh. 2018 S 40kW. Did I type that??

Manual says:
"LI-ION BATTERY WARMER (IF SO
EQUIPPED)"

My dad lives in Colorado and has a 2019 S, and is somewhat concerned with the Arctic blast. He is not sure if his LEAF has the battery heater.

It has the battery heater. A 2019 Leaf S (40 kWH) has it standard.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The 40 kWH battery is kinda "better" than the 62kWH big one in this respect, since you don't technically have to plug it in to warm it, as long as you have over 15% battery charge remaining. Now, it could drop below that 15% during the night, I guess, but you can make sure it has a full charge before the Arctic Blast hits Colorado (or elsewhere in the U.S. & Canada). A 62kWH must be plugged in, which stinks, I think, since that removes a strategy of simply charging to 100% and letting it warm itself.

You can somewhat mitigate this by using the climate control to drop the charge regularly to about 90%, and using L-1 charging to get it back up to full as slowly as possible.

 

[kaihripentiki]

Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery, so don't let that confuse you. I'm not positive which LED tells you what, maybe someone else knows and again this is true for the older Leafs, not sure if the newer ones are the same.

For 2023 Model year, manual page CH-51 states the 3rd light (driver's side) blinks if 12v charging is occurring.

 

[kaihripentiki]

Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery, so don't let that confuse you. I'm not positive which LED tells you what, maybe someone else knows and again this is true for the older Leafs, not sure if the newer ones are the same.

For 2023 Model year, manual page CH-51 states the 3rd light (driver's side) blinks if 12v charging is occurring.

Page EV-7,4-41 indicate that the battery warmer indication is identical to the 12v charger, climate control timer, and remote climate control operation. CH-52 seems to also indicate this (as an extension to the CH-51 section on the 3rd light, though on first reading it seemed to me to merely vaguely say the dash-top indicator would use some_ pattern.

EV-14/EV-16 indicate that there's some way to get notified of the Li-ion battery warmer operation via NissanConnect, though i have not been able to find a reference for how to accomplish that. Frankly, i've failed to get notified thus far via SMS or push of anything (such as unplugged alerts).

 

[voltamps]

Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery,

For 2023 Model year, manual page CH-51 states the 3rd light (driver's side) blinks if 12v charging is occurring.

Seems odd. Why would anyone care if the 12v battery is getting topped off or charged in any manner? It's something that is done all the time, routinely, and humans don't care.

 

[voltamps]

Manual says:
"LI-ION BATTERY WARMER (IF SO
EQUIPPED)"

That "if equipped" thing is probably just if they had decided to leave off the battery heater for those Leafs sold in warm countries around the planet. Anything sold in N. America is heater equipped. In other words, it's not an option on the Monroney, standard in cold-ish selling areas.

Just in case, tell him to leave it plugged in. Always the simple "action advice" here.
The act of charging (assuming it doesn't reach full during the un-Godly weather event) would generate some heat at least.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery,

For 2023 Model year, manual page CH-51 states the 3rd light (driver's side) blinks if 12v charging is occurring.

Seems odd. Why would anyone care if the 12v battery is getting topped off or charged in any manner? It's something that is done all the time, routinely, and humans don't care.

IIRC, every year Leaf has this feature.

 

[Learjet]

Note another blue light blinks if the Leaf is topping up the 12v battery,

For 2023 Model year, manual page CH-51 states the 3rd light (driver's side) blinks if 12v charging is occurring.

Seems odd. Why would anyone care if the 12v battery is getting topped off or charged in any manner? It's something that is done all the time, routinely, and humans don't care.

well, if you are in the garage by the car when the relays start clicking and you then see the one blue light blinking...you know what's going on

 

[jjeff]

So I brushed off the Leafs just now(0F outside) and my '13 had the single blue LED closest to the driver blinking, which sounds like the 12v battery charger? although the funny thing is I had both my Leafs on a tender(separate ones) so maybe it meant the battery heater was on? anyway I unplugged the 12v battery tenders and plugged the cars in and while I left them near 100% on Saturday night, my '13S was at 72% and my '12SL was at 70% so the battery heaters defiantly use some of the main batt and not a small amount. Note the '13 has 11 health bars and charges up to 100% SOC or close but the '12 is lucky to hit 90% before stopping a charge. Both are totally outside in the elements. I think I'm done with the 12v tenders for now and will just occasionally plug them in until temps rise into the single digits, which sounds like well after Christmas

 

[knightmb]

So I brushed off the Leafs just now(0F outside) and my '13 had the single blue LED closest to the driver blinking, which sounds like the 12v battery charger? although the funny thing is I had both my Leafs on a tender(separate ones) so maybe it meant the battery heater was on? anyway I unplugged the 12v battery tenders and plugged the cars in and while I left them near 100% on Saturday night, my '13S was at 72% and my '12SL was at 70% so the battery heaters defiantly use some of the main batt and not a small amount. Note the '13 has 11 health bars and charges up to 100% SOC or close but the '12 is lucky to hit 90% before stopping a charge. Both are totally outside in the elements. I think I'm done with the 12v tenders for now and will just occasionally plug them in until temps rise into the single digits, which sounds like well after Christmas

This is what I am trying to replicate for my 2020+, it just doesn't get cold enough here. Although, it's going to hit a long stretch of single digits, so I might be able to finally get a chance to collect some LeafSpy data on this to see if "software mode" heating is a real thing. I've got easy access to some -100F dry ice and the rear diffuser off my Leaf to provide easy access to the battery pack and a place to cut up pieces of dry ice and start stuffing them into the frame and air channels. :lol:

 

[jjeff]

So I brushed off the Leafs just now(0F outside) and my '13 had the single blue LED closest to the driver blinking, which sounds like the 12v battery charger? although the funny thing is I had both my Leafs on a tender(separate ones) so maybe it meant the battery heater was on? anyway I unplugged the 12v battery tenders and plugged the cars in and while I left them near 100% on Saturday night, my '13S was at 72% and my '12SL was at 70% so the battery heaters defiantly use some of the main batt and not a small amount. Note the '13 has 11 health bars and charges up to 100% SOC or close but the '12 is lucky to hit 90% before stopping a charge. Both are totally outside in the elements. I think I'm done with the 12v tenders for now and will just occasionally plug them in until temps rise into the single digits, which sounds like well after Christmas

This is what I am trying to replicate for my 2020+, it just doesn't get cold enough here. Although, it's going to hit a long stretch of single digits, so I might be able to finally get a chance to collect some LeafSpy data on this to see if "software mode" heating is a real thing. I've got easy access to some -100F dry ice and the rear diffuser off my Leaf to provide easy access to the battery pack and a place to cut up pieces of dry ice and start stuffing them into the frame and air channels. :lol:

Yes it's one advantage to sustained very cold weather, good for testing :lol:
Still, I wonder what EV drivers in colder areas like northern MN where it regularly gets to -20F if not -30F or colder would experience, I'd think they would be wasting a bit of electricity just keeping their battery warm, unless it was garaged. My area hits -20F maybe once/a year or less and when I does I sometimes like to take a pot of boiling water and toss it up into the air, it instantly turns into a snow cloud and is a pretty cool site to see but really needs to be -20F or colder for full effect.
I really think to test a battery warmer it has to get into the very low single digits or better yet below 0F.

 

[voltamps]

It's interesting how this works.
Other vehicles with Li-ion batteries don't tell owners to do anything special in cold weather (below zero, approx).

For example, my other vehicle is a '22 Maverick Hybrid with a small 1.1 kWH battery, and there is exactly nothing in the Owner's Manual on freezing this battery, except for something vague about how things won't work below -13F. I also looked at a '22 RAV4 Hybrid owners manual and it only says "Don't start it below -22F."

So I don't know how much damage is done by extreme cold. Electrolyte crystallization? Expansion/Contraction issues? Long term damage? It's certainly a concern, yet I haven't found much about it.

 

[jjeff]

It's interesting how this works.
Other vehicles with Li-ion batteries don't tell owners to do anything special in cold weather (below zero, approx).

For example, my other vehicle is a '22 Maverick Hybrid with a small 1.1 kWH battery, and there is exactly nothing in the Owner's Manual on freezing this battery, except for something vague about how things won't work below -13F. I also looked at a '22 RAV4 Hybrid owners manual and it only says "Don't start it below -22F."

So I don't know how much damage is done by extreme cold. Electrolyte crystallization? Expansion/Contraction issues? Long term damage? It's certainly a concern, yet I haven't found much about it.

I don't think storing a Li battery in extremely cold temps is necessarily bad for it but I believe it's charging it in such extreme temps. I'm thinking with hybrid or PHEV vehicles they are able to limit or curtail charging because you always have the ICE to fall back on.
An interesting thing about our recently purchased RAV4-Prime, in these cold temps we basically get 0 miles out of the battery. As it's only source of EV heat is a heat pump which basically gives no heat in single to sub-zero F temps. Don't get me wrong, it's still better than the no-electric heat in my daughter's Hyundai PHEV but I really wish the RAV4-Prime had electric heat like a Leaf. Sure the range would be cut in half but at least one could get heat without running the ICE almost full time in very cold temps. The RAV4 Prime has 3 settings, EV only where in such temps you get no heat, Auto where it turns on the ICE when you want to heat in very cold temps and with a moderate heat setting the ICE seems to run almost exclusively and EV save where it runs the ICE to save EV charge.
We were getting EV range when the temps were in the teens but not a lot of heat but since dropping into low single digits we either get heat and no EV range or EV range but no heat, we choose the heat Note it's not just heat for heat's sake, we need heat to keep the windows and particularly the windshield clear and safe. I'd really have liked a heated windshield like Ford had years ago but it wasn't an option and I'm not sure how many, if any modern vehicles have a heated windshield. You could always tell the Ford heated windshield from it's gold reflection.