My 1 year anniversary, but no cake

[LEAFfan]

Today, (Yay! I think!), it's been a year since I sent off my $99 and reserved a Leaf. I hope Nissan has been putting my $99 to good use. I still have no idea when I'll get delivery. Not to worry though; the sun will probably rise tomorrow.
I do know, however, that if the CA rebate is "kaput" when my car gets here, I'll give it to Mr. Kamins @ Kearney Mesa Nissan, to dispose of as he sees fit. You see, I'm not one of those "rich boys". I simply cannot afford the $5,000.00 higher price with my fixed retirement income. The old Echo will suffice for awhile longer.

I hope you get your car soon, but please remember that there are lots of us out there who ordered months before you did, and who have a June or July estimated delivery month. You are still one of the lucky ones who were moved way ahead of many others and as such have gotten or will be getting the CA $5K that may not be available to people who order earlier.

+1!

 

[LEAFfan]

LaLeaf, I know how you feel. I felt the same way, when I saw orders with Vin numbers that were 1,000.or more orders after mine. I went "nuts". I do not understand why Nissan did not fix the order scheduling. Maybe its bad legal advice concerning creating liability if they take cars from those who inadvertently received Vin #`s.Or perhaps they do not have the systems to be able to do it. Perhaps they feel that there are so many Nissan employees and points of contact that have to be involved that it would lead to even greater confusion.
From everything I have seen, the car is a really good one and worth the terrible waiting.

Excuses, excuses, excuses...and poor ones at that.

 

[LEAFfan]

Customer's whose LEAFs were on one of the two boats who docked in the last week should have their VINs by the end of the week, I think, based on prior patterns.

Mine was on one of the ships that arrived Mar. 22, and I received my VIN around Mar. 28-29. The way I understand it is that you should receive your VIN in about a week after your LEAF arrives at the port in LB.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I do know, however, that if the CA rebate is "kaput" when my car gets here, I'll give it to Mr. Kamins @ Kearney Mesa Nissan, to dispose of as he sees fit. You see, I'm not one of those "rich boys". I simply cannot afford the $5,000.00 higher price with my fixed retirement income. The old Echo will suffice for awhile longer.

If you get next years rebate possibly at $2,500, or less likely at $1,500, in all seriousness, will that still work for you? We should get some level of CA rebate, since they are putting people in the queue for the next cycle if they miss this cycle of CA rebates. Though it is a bitter pill to swallow that after showing the commitment to register and order earlier, orders that were months after will get their LEAFs and an additional $2,500+ in CA rebates that would have gone to us in lost order camp.

Nissan does appear to be matching a few of the lost orders up to unclaimed LEAFs, so that helps a little but can't completely correct the issue of the lost orders.

Certainly, we'll know a good bit more in the next few weeks as we get a bunch of deliveries and the CA CVRP FY 2010-2011 (fiscal year) ending in June, and the FY 2011-2012 starting in July.

 

[smkettner]

Today, (Yay! I think!), it's been a year since I sent off my $99 and reserved a Leaf. I hope Nissan has been putting my $99 to good use. I still have no idea when I'll get delivery. Not to worry though; the sun will probably rise tomorrow.

I do know, however, that if the CA rebate is "kaput" when my car gets here, I'll give it to Mr. Kamins @ Kearney Mesa Nissan, to dispose of as he sees fit. You see, I'm not one of those "rich boys". I simply cannot afford the $5,000.00 higher price with my fixed retirement income. The old Echo will suffice for awhile longer.

Well it looks like as long as the 10/11 5k money holds out you will get the full 5k amount even if you complete the purchase after June 30 (assuming tthere are remaining funds). Did you indicate you had a June delivery estimate? I give it a very good chance you will get the Leaf and the 5K.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

And we now have confirmation that even if you slip into the FY 2011 - 2012 funds, you'll still get a very sizable CA rebate of $2,500 for the Nissan LEAF which is classified as a Type II ZEV.

Yes, the LEAF has and will continue to be classified as a Type II ZEV. Thus it will be eligible for the maximum rebate amount. Tracking the $5k California CVRP Fund

 

[walterbays]

I do know, however, that if the CA rebate is "kaput" when my car gets here, I'll give it to Mr. Kamins @ Kearney Mesa Nissan, to dispose of as he sees fit.

I'm convinced that Nissan thought there would be plenty of supply to fill orders so quickly that their out of sequence error would make no real difference. And even after the earthquake they might have been right if not for the CA rebate funds running out and being renewed at a lower amount. The last few months could have been much less stressful for everyone if the CA rebate program had been set up with different rules.

The purpose of the rebate as I understand it is to subsidize those people who take the greatest risk in deciding to buy a car with new technology and a public infrastructure that exists only in plans or dreams. Prioritizing the rebates by reservation order would have been more fair except it would have to go only to people who reserved and followed through with a purchase.

Given that CCSE is prepared to manage a waiting list after funds run out until new funds are added, I think they could have managed rebate disbursement by reservation date if the state program had allowed it. E.g., there could have been $5k rebates for those who reserved in April and May, $4k for June and July, $3k for August and later. Or there could have been $5k rebates for the first 500 cars, then $4k, etc.

When you or Nissan submitted proof of reservation date you'd have gotten your place in line, and when you submitted proof of purchase you'd have received your check. Whenever funds ran out you'd keep your place in line, so a 4/20 reservation holder might be waiting for a $5k check while a late reservation holder was waiting for a $3k check.

If, if, if... Doesn't mean anything for California now. But there are a lot more states that haven't ordered yet which might have incentive programs of their own. And Nissan isn't going to have adequate supply of LEAFs until the Tennessee plant opens for the 2013 model year. So they could learn from our troubles.

 

[leafkabob]

Derkraut said:
I do know, however, that if the CA rebate is "kaput" when my car gets here, I'll give it to Mr. Kamins @ Kearney Mesa Nissan, to dispose of as he sees fit. You see, I'm not one of those "rich boys".

Every time a Californian says they are going to pass up the car if they don't get the $5K rebate, I think to myself, "All of us in Arizona must be pretty stupid to pay $5K more for the car." We don't get a break on sales tax and have no other state incentives. But the reality is, since a big rebate is not available, it is the only game in town for us.

I also laughed at the "rich boy" tag above. (No offense taken Derkraut, I get your point). I don't know that those of us in Arizona are any richer than you all in California, but if we want a leaf we have no choice but to pay $5K more than you Californians.

I predict that even if the Calif. rebate goes down to $2,500, that will become the new "standard" and folks will continue to buy the car, but will threaten to let it go if they don't get the $2,500 rebate.

I also am amazed every time a Californian says they won't buy the car without the $5K because if true, that means the US is probably not ready for electric cars.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

a $5,000 difference is a concern or would be a concern to me. if not for the Fed tax credit, my buying would have been much tougher. now, WA does not get an additional $5,000 but we do get sales tax waiver which is good for better than $3,000 and it helps.

but i still feel it hard to justify buying the car due to price. i am saving about $75 a month in gas. its pretty simple. yesterday, i drove the Prius. paid $40.02 for gas. could have driven the same distance in the Leaf for $15 (that figure is probably slightly inflated, but we had discussed that already) so its $25 per trip and i do about 3 trips a month. we will ignore for now the huge imbalance in maintenance costs between gas vehicles and EVs.

but gas savings is only the beginning. now, some here could reason, i am old so i only need to have the country hold on for a decade or two. well, less than 3 years ago, i thought that the country would last that long. i no longer feel that way.

our national debt is forcing a major lifestyle change that few today can even begin to imagine. every dollar spent to buy foreign oil is borrowed which means that the true cost of gas is much higher than the $4 you pay at the pump.

a dollar spent on electricity is spent locally, invested locally and eventually will come back to you to spend again. i know i have harped this a million times, but it is worth repeating. we need to get back to spending American money, stop the huge flow of cash to foreign countries, and start to become more self sufficient in vital services and commodities.

 

[LALeaf]

Every time a Californian says they are going to pass up the car if they don't get the $5K rebate, I think to myself, "All of us in Arizona must be pretty stupid to pay $5K more for the car." We don't get a break on sales tax and have no other state incentives. But the reality is, since a big rebate is not available, it is the only game in town for us.

I also laughed at the "rich boy" tag above. (No offense taken Derkraut, I get your point). I don't know that those of us in Arizona are any richer than you all in California, but if we want a leaf we have no choice but to pay $5K more than you Californians.

I predict that even if the Calif. rebate goes down to $2,500, that will become the new "standard" and folks will continue to buy the car, but will threaten to let it go if they don't get the $2,500 rebate.

I also am amazed every time a Californian says they won't buy the car without the $5K because if true, that means the US is probably not ready for electric cars.

Just curious, do you think the same about the Federal $7500 credit?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Just curious, do you think the same about the Federal $7500 credit?

ask me that in 3 years when i am contemplating my 2nd Leaf purchase. by then it will be gone

 

[thankyouOB]

83 cents a day = loss of $2500 incentive over 8-year life of car or $6 a week.

Given there are still $7500 in tax credits and $2000 or so in the free charger and $700 in the fast charger = still quite a savings off full cost.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this cost analysis is useless unless we run the expense of a alternative vehicle.

what should we run it on? a Prius. well they are cheaper, but to get the same features you would pay around $25,000 so that would not work since that would be just about the same as a Leaf after the Fed thing.

so i guess we have to do a upshot Kia then. they are cheap. wanna buy one. that will save you money

 

[davewill]

I predict that even if the Calif. rebate goes down to $2,500, that will become the new "standard" and folks will continue to buy the car, but will threaten to let it go if they don't get the $2,500 rebate.

I also am amazed every time a Californian says they won't buy the car without the $5K because if true, that means the US is probably not ready for electric cars.

Not really. The only reason to have incentives is because the tech is too expensive for the market. Just one look at the LEAF without EV enthusiast glasses on, it is plain to see that is does not really measure up to other $34,000 cars. So, the incentives are needed if the car is to penetrate the mass market. The real test is whether the car becomes more affordable when the incentives are lowered or ended. The LEAF represents a more affordable EV than what came before, that's part of why the CA rebate is being lowered. Hopefully by 3 years from now (or whenever Nissan finally puts out the 200,000 cars the federal rebate allows for, the LEAF (or it's descendant) will be well under $30,000. Of course, Nissan won't lower the price even a smidgeon until then...so one is never sure until the incentives are actually changed/removed.

That said, there are always people on the bubble no matter what the price and incentives. It makes no sense to make character or value judgements just because one person needs/wants an incentive than another. If AZ had a similar incentive to CA or WA, I have no doubt that more AZ people would have reserved LEAFS than have so far. That doesn't show so much in the early going since demand has outstripped supply, but next year it might.

 

[Packet]

our national debt is forcing a major lifestyle change that few today can even begin to imagine. every dollar spent to buy foreign oil is borrowed which means that the true cost of gas is much higher than the $4 you pay at the pump.

I know some people think that buying a hybrid or whatever else is just a snobby way of trying to feel better than others; in this case, I think that we're trying to make a statement that 'I don't want to pour any more of my money into foreign oil than I have to.' Sure, we can't completely eliminate it from our lives, but by buying an electric car /now/ I figure we early adopters are helping to smooth the road for others to do the same later.

And honestly, it's true in a lot of ways. Several of my neighbors (including one who's in her 80's!) are following the LEAF purchase saga with interest and curiosity. More than one has said that if the car works well for me, they'd consider getting one down the road!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Not really. The only reason to have incentives is because the tech is too expensive for the market.

and what new tech is not? $400 Blackberries that could access the internet at a blazing 80 kbps??

the incentives are partly to lower the cost of new technology. the fed credit goes away after 200,000 units. that essentially give car manufacturers 2-3 years to lower cost which ALWAYS happens when volume is involved.

i cannot believe people at this website who should be more informed on the mechanics of future developments than the average joe who continue to post these kinds of issues.

another thing we seem to be completely blind to is the cost of gas. the true value of gasoline purchases from foreign oil is said to be 250% greater than the pump price. so its not $4 a gallon, its closer to $10 a gallon.

run a cost analysis on that figure. but that will be a tough road to pave especially when gas prices drop back down to the mid 3's this fall. after $4+ the typical American will think they are getting a bargain and EVs will slowly fade away.

these incentives gets the initial batch on the roads. trust me. the car will sell itself. the technology is a no-brainer. problem is, we have soooo many clueless Americans, they have to be led

i heard this exact same argument with the Prius. i was the laughing stock of the lunchroom when i told them i paid $25,000 for my Prius. gas was about $2.10 a gallon. guess what!!! they aint laughing no more.

call it a con, call it whatever you want but in 5 years the #1 segment of new EV purchases will be repeats or immediate family members of a current EV owner

 

[davewill]

Not really. The only reason to have incentives is because the tech is too expensive for the market.

and what new tech is not? $400 Blackberries that could access the internet at a blazing 80 kbps??

the incentives are partly to lower the cost of new technology. the fed credit goes away after 200,000 units. that essentially give car manufacturers 2-3 years to lower cost which ALWAYS happens when volume is involved.

i cannot believe people at this website who should be more informed on the mechanics of future developments than the average joe who continue to post these kinds of issues.

Are you talking to me? Because I don't know why you're ranting. Nothing you've written contradicts anything I said.

 

[thankyouOB]

who wants to read news on a tv screen?

how did that work out for the world? at some point, the US will have to get serious and price energy more realistically, and people will have to conserve. that conserving muscle is part of what we activate and immediately get when we drive EV-style.

People have to make choices. Climate change came in a big way to the Mississippi this month, and folks are going to add it up. there are real trade offs to going 75 mph as if it were your birthright. Many Americans will struggle mightily with that.