No Heat!

[Stroked02F350]

The other Leaf next to yours was a undelivered car that I caught not having heat on the PDI. Strangely enough has the same symptom as yours but different causes. I am the "clueless tech" as someone else refereed to me that is working on your car. I saw you in there taking pictures today and figured they will be on the net somewhere. If you have any questions that the service writer or manager didnt cover I will be happy to answer them for you. We are quickly working on a solution and you should be rolling green in no time.

 

[EVDRIVER]

They should know what the issue is, a competent tech can diagnose the heater system quickly. Sounds like they are stalling on a part, or they are clueless. If non-EV techs can diagnose heater issues before the dealer that is cause for concern, that has happened twice that I have seen. In fact I feel more confident fixing the car myself.

 

[Stroked02F350]

Congrats you nailed the problem on the car next to the OP's. His car on the other hand the pump is flowing as designed and is not the problem. I prefer to the fix the car right the first time instead of wasting my time throwing parts at a car. Just because you read on the internet that it happened to 2 other cars doesn't mean it happened to all of them. I joined your forum to answer questions and try to keep the customers involved in the repairs on there cars. Instead I have a moderator belittling me?

To keep on topic, any issues we are having with Leafs are required to be authorized by the Nissan Tech line. The are keeping tabs on every issue these cars are having. When a new concern comes up 99% of the time they are sending there Leaf team out to find and document the Complaint Cause and Correction. Nissan is doing everything they can to keep good press on this car.

 

[TomT]

I guess I am just used to the treatment one gets from higher end marques... Every time I have taken my BMWs or Acuras in for service, be it warranty or not, I've received a loaner car, even though I didn't even buy the vehicle at the servicing dealers. Nissan dealers remind me more of Chevy (I've had a couple of Corvettes over the years and while I loved the cars, I despised the dealers)...

I am curious if the loaner is the standard dealer issue for any repair, or because the leaf is special? I took my leaf in for the ac fix but I didn't get a loaner

It seems only for special cases. For the most part they provide shuttle service. I had warranty repair previously on my Sentra for 2 days and they did not give me a loaner.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Congrats you nailed the problem on the car next to the OP's. His car on the other hand the pump is flowing as designed and is not the problem. I prefer to the fix the car right the first time instead of wasting my time throwing parts at a car. Just because you read on the internet that it happened to 2 other cars doesn't mean it happened to all of them. I joined your forum to answer questions and try to keep the customers involved in the repairs on there cars. Instead I have a moderator belittling me?

To keep on topic, any issues we are having with Leafs are required to be authorized by the Nissan Tech line. The are keeping tabs on every issue these cars are having. When a new concern comes up 99% of the time they are sending there Leaf team out to find and document the Complaint Cause and Correction. Nissan is doing everything they can to keep good press on this car.

Who exactly is belittling you, this is you second post here. I am quite aware of the process, I have been through it myself and I am aware of the approval process as well, what does that have to do with quickly and properly identifying the issue? The poorly designed heating system is quite basic and contains few parts and is not that complex to test, even component by component, it is quite basic next to inverter repairs, etc, all things Nissan does not do, they swap parts which is as easy as it gets. They need to train the techs better or the techs need more experience on EVs, when you "talk tech" with a lead Nissan Tech they get a glazed look in their eyes, this is all new to them and it's not their fault.


One thing you got right, Nissan is covering their but at the customers time expense as they either don't trust the skills of their techs or the techs are not properly trained yet, I have found both to be true but that is not the fault of the tech. EVs and ICE cars are very different and although an Nissan mechanic may do a valve job I really don't see them repairing inverter boards, they will be reading error codes and swapping parts, that level of repair is beyond their expertise and not how MFG do repairs on these items for many reasons. There are many EV people out there that can repair ever single circuit on the LEAF with no LEAF training, that I am confident about.


PS. It was never stated it was the pump definitively but only likely based on some other history, but it's not hard to test every part of the heat system methodically. I did mention long ago this was an antiquated way to heat an EV but it should not be unreliable as it is a basic system.

 

[Stroked02F350]

The heating system in the Leaf is a very simple design you are correct about that. The high voltage power distribution is not. That is where the OP's problem is coming from. It is extremely difficult to try to swap parts for a car that has only been in the US for a couple of months, then throw the parts distribution issues from the recent disasters in Japan makes your "swaptronic" diag process impossible.

I have only been on your forum for a couple of hours and 3 posts now mostly due to he fact that I dont own a Leaf. I saw the OP in my shop today taking pictures and searched for a no heat leaf post on multiple Leaf forums. Read what he had to say and since I am the tech in back and don't usually get to talk to customers thought I would be of help by answering his questions and maybe giving everyone a better idea of the repair process. I am not your typical mindless mechanic. I have spent hundreds of hours training and researching the Leaf. By trying to group me in with the crowd of parts swappers is belittling. I will say though I am impressed that you went to the inverter boards. Are you a tech yourself or just a enthusiast?

 

[IBELEAF]

The other Leaf next to yours was a undelivered car that I caught not having heat on the PDI. Strangely enough has the same symptom as yours but different causes. I am the "clueless tech" as someone else refereed to me that is working on your car. I saw you in there taking pictures today and figured they will be on the net somewhere. If you have any questions that the service writer or manager didnt cover I will be happy to answer them for you. We are quickly working on a solution and you should be rolling green in no time.

Thank you for update and most importantly thank you for trying to fix the issue quickly! Also, it may not tell me much, but I am still wondering which part are you waiting for to arrive tomorrow?

 

[EVDRIVER]

The heating system in the Leaf is a very simple design you are correct about that. The high voltage power distribution is not. That is where the OP's problem is coming from. It is extremely difficult to try to swap parts for a car that has only been in the US for a couple of months, then throw the parts distribution issues from the recent disasters in Japan makes your "swaptronic" diag process impossible.

I have only been on your forum for a couple of hours and 3 posts now mostly due to he fact that I dont own a Leaf. I saw the OP in my shop today taking pictures and searched for a no heat leaf post on multiple Leaf forums. Read what he had to say and since I am the tech in back and don't usually get to talk to customers thought I would be of help by answering his questions and maybe giving everyone a better idea of the repair process. I am not your typical mindless mechanic. I have spent hundreds of hours training and researching the Leaf. By trying to group me in with the crowd of parts swappers is belittling. I will say though I am impressed that you went to the inverter boards. Are you a tech yourself or just a enthusiast?

I am not calling you a part swapper nor am I directing anything at you personally or otherwise. Yes, the HV system is more complex and "swapping" parts is not always the most effective means to address these areas even with intuition and careful diligence. In cases like this engineers are needed to reduce the diagnosis curve that Consult and other measurements and testing are unable to resolve. It is unreasonable to expect even a very skilled and competent dealer tech to have advanced skills an EE would have and the irony is that this is often needed in quickly resolving EV issues, experience in the car will help as well as understanding how these systems relate and can impact each other, even when functioning properly. I am not an EE but have built advanced EVs and have been working on them for years and my business partner is an expert in this area. In time these issues will be isolated and narrowed for Nissan techs to diagnose easier with less reliance on Engineers. If you were not out of state we could have been more helpful by offering assistance as an EV problem is only a fun challenge to tackle and another opportunity to learn.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
Back in the day at Cadillac (1980). The GMC guys thought us dealer techs couldn't handle DFI technology so they didn't give us any detailed technical info, just go - no go tests. This went on until they realized that some of us knew more about what was going on than they did. EE's are one thing, production engineers something else entirely. Eventually they had to give us all the technical documents so we could fix the cars faster and save them money. They shipped us defective cars from all over the NW because they knew we could fix them.
Nissan is handling this very different than GMC did. Sounds like all info is available they just want to document everything just like pre-production vehicles. They are protecting their sizable investment in this technology and we should be patient. Nothing can be gained by inhibiting techs from doing their job. That includes us owners, dealer management and Nissan.

Personally, I appreciate a tech willing to come on this site and speak the truth. Chances are if "they" are monitoring this site he will hear about it soon.

 

[Stroked02F350]

My guess is they are watching. I did respond to the OP in a pm to not get myself in to much trouble. As far as documents are concerned they have a good deal of go no go tests and that's it. The inner workings of the car have not been released to us yet.

 

[bowthom]

The inner workings of the car have not been released to us yet.

I am sorry to hear that, it will be an impediment. There is nothing that new/top secret under the hood of the Leaf except maybe battery chemistry, pretty standard stuff although the packaging is unique.

 

[AmarilloLeaf]

If you have any questions that the service writer or manager didnt cover I will be happy to answer them for you. We are quickly working on a solution and you should be rolling green in no time.

Stroked,

Thanks for taking the time to search out for this discussion, and add your insights.

Most of us are not long time EV experts, and very few of us have hands-on repair experience with Nissan or the Leaf like you do.

I hope you will continue to come back and participate in this forum, and not let a few ol' grouches scare you off.

Thanks!

 

[EVDRIVER]

If you have any questions that the service writer or manager didnt cover I will be happy to answer them for you. We are quickly working on a solution and you should be rolling green in no time.

Stroked,

Thanks for taking the time to search out for this discussion, and add your insights.

Most of us are not long time EV experts, and very few of us have hands-on repair experience with Nissan or the Leaf like you do.

I hope you will continue to come back and participate in this forum, and not let a few ol' grouches scare you off.

Thanks!

No one is scaring him off.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The inner workings of the car have not been released to us yet.

I am sorry to hear that, it will be an impediment. There is nothing that new/top secret under the hood of the Leaf except maybe battery chemistry, pretty standard stuff although the packaging is unique.

Yes, that is the funny part so many people cite about EVs, other then pack chemistry all the systems function about the same. It's not like Ford is dying to know how much regen is reduced at 92% SOC or other such silly things. Something of value would be if Nissan could pack a 18kw grid-tied charger in the same package as the existing charger (ACP beat them 10 years ago) and also if they could get 10% more efficiency out of a proven motor design, but they don't. The LEAF is not full of ground breaking tech, it's full of basic EV parts and lots of complex systems talking to each other made by suppliers. I'm sure it's not the OEM Clarion head unit with LEAF spec software that is a big secret either Check out the clarion Europe site and you may see something familiar

 

[AmarilloLeaf]

No one is scaring him off.

Some folks could be a bit less touchy.....

 

[Boomer23]

No one is scaring him off.

Some folks could be a bit less touchy.....

+1

 

[Boomer23]

I guess I am just used to the treatment one gets from higher end marques... Every time I have taken my BMWs or Acuras in for service, be it warranty or not, I've received a loaner car, even though I didn't even buy the vehicle at the servicing dealers. Nissan dealers remind me more of Chevy (I've had a couple of Corvettes over the years and while I loved the cars, I despised the dealers)...

I am curious if the loaner is the standard dealer issue for any repair, or because the leaf is special? I took my leaf in for the ac fix but I didn't get a loaner

It seems only for special cases. For the most part they provide shuttle service. I had warranty repair previously on my Sentra for 2 days and they did not give me a loaner.

My LEAF got called in for a software update for the AC issue, though I hadn't had any problems with it. The service tech arranged for a loaner car through Enterprise without even blinking. It turned out that I only had the loaner for 2hours because the engineers took care of the update within 90 minutes of my dropping off the car. Maybe it's my experience with Infiniti and BMW, but I've come to expect a loaner if I request one, especially on warranty work.

 

[EVDRIVER]

No one is scaring him off.

Some folks could be a bit less touchy.....

That is for sure! There are some members already being misunderstood and they are not even on the forum yet, in fact they are already preparing libel suits in anticipation about what may be said. Welcome to the internet.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I really hope heated seats are a stand alone option in the future, at about 100 watts they makes sense in an EV. I also hope Nissan looks at a heat pump or instant heat of a ceramic heater bypassing the need of pumps, pipes, fluid and such and the long delays, wasted energy and weight of this system. The Prius uses both of the former.

 

[palmermd]

The Prius uses both of the former.

So does my garage built conversion.