Official BMW i3 thread

[mwalsh]

But like Tony, the reported major failure experiences of the ActiveE early adopter crowd really have my attention as I consider a future lease on an i3. I find it a bit hard to believe that BMW is really ready to mass produce this power train.

For me, it always comes back to the MINI e program and the apparent lack of a gained knowledge from it. What the hell was the point?

 

[evnow]

But like Tony, the reported major failure experiences of the ActiveE early adopter crowd really have my attention as I consider a future lease on an i3. I find it a bit hard to believe that BMW is really ready to mass produce this power train.

Haven't read the ActiveE reports. Where do you read about it ?

 

[Boomer23]

But like Tony, the reported major failure experiences of the ActiveE early adopter crowd really have my attention as I consider a future lease on an i3. I find it a bit hard to believe that BMW is really ready to mass produce this power train.

Haven't read the ActiveE reports. Where do you read about it ?

Facebook "BMW ActiveE" open group.

 

[evnow]

One of the messages ...

"Another one bites the dust"
Had a fatal "Drive Train Error" last week. Car had to be dragged (with skids) onto the flat bed. Just got word from my service writer they need to replace the motor - out of commission for a month! Only 8,000 miles. Hard to believe this drive train is so close to production.

I guess that is not a ringing endorsement ...

 

[edatoakrun]

So, two new reports agree on the "two-cylinder motorcycle engine" but seem to disagree on where BMW is placing it.

BMW will offer a two-cylinder motorcycle engine and a generator to extend the range of its i3 electric.

Herbert Diess, BMW's head of r&d, said the package will be offered as an option on the i3. He did not say how much it will cost. The option will be available when the i3 goes on sale globally in the fourth quarter.

The i3 has a range on a single electrical charge of 60 to 90 miles. A two-cylinder gasoline engine, derived from a BMW motorcycle, extends the range to about 250 miles on a tank of gasoline, Diess said last week at the Detroit auto show.

The engine is housed in the trunk and connected to a generator that recharges the battery. The engine doesn't transmit mechanical power directly to the wheels....

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2013/01/bmw-i3-to-be-range-extended-by-2-cyl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But as reported below, the ICEV is beneath the trunk.

Also reported below is a ~$45,000 base price, BTW.

http://insideevs.com/bmw-details-range-extender-on-upcoming-i3-up-to-160-more-miles-on-gas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2013/01/bmw-i3-to-be-range-extended-by-2-cyl.html

Nice.

He expects the order rate for the option could exceed 50 percent with early buyers, then stabilize at about 20 percent.

He said an electric car fits the needs of urban daily commuters, who could use the gasoline engine for longer trips on the weekend. He added: "For those who plan a daily use of the range extender, probably the i3 is not the right choice, with a plug-in hybrid model being a better suitable solution."

Considering we rarely do long trips (considering the infant in the house), i3 with REx would actually fit our need for a "road trip" car. It is interesting to see BMW expecting 50% REx initially. I think in the US it will be even higher, if there is no trunc space penalty and the option isn't expensive.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Considering we rarely do long trips (considering the infant in the house), i3 with REx would actually fit our need for a "road trip" car...

You may need to reconsider.

At least in CARB configuration, it sounds like you will not be allowed to start the generator until the battery is exhausted.

This will probably leave you with far less than optimum operating kW/HP, once your battery pack's kWh are used up, and you must rely entirely on the tiny ICE's output for propulsion. IOW, after your electric miles are driven, you will be in a true "limp home" mode.

The 1.4 litre Chevy Volt tries to get around this problem by offering the "mountain" mode, which starts the ICEV prematurely, so you don't get stuck on a steep hill with "kW anxiety"...

But as reported previously, this will not be allowed in cars designed to qualify for the the CARB BEVx class.

 

[evnow]

This will probably leave you with far less than optimum operating kW/HP, once your battery pack's kWh are used up, and you must rely entirely on the tiny ICE's output for propulsion. IOW, after your electric miles are driven, you will be in a true "limp home" mode.

Assuming we all get Carb BEVx, unless we need to climb up the mountain @ 70 mph right at the REx start , it should do much better than "limp". We could be talking about a 90kW generator. Worst case would be a short break to pump some juice into the battery.

 

[Ingineer]

We could be talking about a 90kW generator. Worst case would be a short break to pump some juice into the battery.

There's no way they'll put anything nearly that big in there! I'd say we'll be lucky to see 20kW, but it sounds like more around 10kW.

-Phil

 

[evnow]

We could be talking about a 90kW generator. Worst case would be a short break to pump some juice into the battery.

There's no way they'll put anything nearly that big in there! I'd say we'll be lucky to see 20kW, but it sounds like more around 10kW.

-Phil

Yes - I looked at the wrong motorcycle.

Looks like you think even 20KW is sufficient (in one of the earlier posts). Tom thiks it might be a 500 or 600 cc engine - so 20 to 30KW should be possible.

 

[surfingslovak]

I believe that the REx will be a modified Rotax engine from BMW's long-time partner BRP. They supply the engines for their F650 and F850 bikes as well.

 

[KJD]

I believe that the REx will be a modified Rotax engine from BMW's long-time partner BRP.

You may be correct.

I was hoping for the flat twin like my 1150. Love that bike.

 

[surfingslovak]

I was hoping for the flat twin like my 1150. Love that bike.

Yes, absolutely! BMW always made great motorcycles, and there was a bit of consternation when they decided to collaborate with Aprilia back in the 90s. I was there, I remember ;-)

This was when BMW learned first-hand about BRP and their technology. I believe that Rotax engines meet two important criteria: very good power-to-weight ratio and reliability. I looked at their catalog, and most, if not all, of their current products appear to be CARB 3-Star certified.

I would pay particular attention to engine type 804: BMW Motorrad, F800 series 85 hp (63 kW) and New F650GS 71 hp (53 kW). I believe that the i3 REx will be either the same or a derivative of this particular design.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Look at engine type 804: BMW Motorrad, F800 series 85 hp (63 kW) and New F650GS 71 hp (53 kW).

BMW also builds a single cylinder 470cc engine in Taiwan (I have one of these) that can put out over 50hp (37kW), in addition to the classic horizontally opposed R1200GS’s 98-hp (72kW) /79-ft.-lb. dyno performance.

The problem with all those data points is that they are peak power, and not continuous duty ratings. For a generator application, I expect that the power to be 25% - 40% less.

 

[evnow]

The problem with all those data points is that they are peak power, and not continuous duty ratings. For a generator application, I expect that the power to be 25% - 40% less.

Yes - also BMW is likely to tune them for best noise/vibration charatceristics. But, I do think driving REx on the freeway should be easily doable (even though not go over the passes @ 70 mph).

 

[surfingslovak]

The problem with all those data points is that they are peak power, and not continuous duty ratings. For a generator application, I expect that the power to be 25% - 40% less.

Yes, of course. I think Phil pointed that out upthread as well. I would not expect peak power in this application either, but it's probably safe to assume that the REx will get between 20 to 30 kW with existing engines used in BMW motorcycles today, which should be adequate for freeway driving. It won't be a limp-mobile, as some have feared. While it's unclear if they will limit traction power in range-extended mode, it looks like they will have to. I remember hearing somewhere that the REx will start recharging the battery at 20% SOC, which is a different design than in the Volt. As a direct consequence, I would expect that the battery will continue recharging when the car is stopped at a red light for example. I'm not sure what the cut-off SOC for REx operation would be. Perhaps 30% or 40%? We should start a betting pool! ;-)

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I would expect that the battery will continue recharging when the car is stopped at a red light for example. I'm not sure what the cut-off SOC for REx operation would be. Perhaps 30% or 40% SOC? We should start a betting pool! ;-)

The GM Volt/Ampera already has a "save battery mode" that would be a smart option. Drive the car at a nice 25kW power level on gasoline to the "big city", then all the around town driving can be done in EV mode. In London, it's to get around smog congestion fees.

So, hopefully, they will have logical options for "mountain mode" and such.

 

[surfingslovak]

So, hopefully, they will have logical options for "mountain mode" and such.

Yes, since the battery won't be completely depleted, there should be enough power to augment the REx when needed, on hill climbs for example.

 

[TomMoloughney]

I think the one thing that will really determine how the REx performs is how important BMW views having the car meet the new(proposed) CARB rules for HOV access. On one hand it would be a coup to be the only range extended EV that has HOV access in CA, which would alone probably sell thousands of them. On the other hand it would severely handicap the functionality of the range extender by limiting the speed of the car in REx mode, not allow BMW to let the user "hold" charge to use later, limit the size of the gas tank because the AER must be greater than the range in gas mode, etc.
I would hope if it's really their intention to make the REx version HOV compliant that they offer a "California" package that does those things and another version for the rest of us. Probably too much to ask though. It's going to be a long couple months of speculation till we get the official specifications...

 

[evnow]

I would hope if it's really their intention to make the REx version HOV compliant that they offer a "California" package that does those things and another version for the rest of us. Probably too much to ask though. It's going to be a long couple months of speculation till we get the official specifications...

I hope so too.

Ofcourse not sure what they have to do here in WA to get the sales tax exemption.