Official BMW i3 thread

[Boomer23]

But at least you don;t have to take the whole damn thing apart with the Leaf...

So, Leaf isn't the only car having heating issues

Indeed. i3 is very tightly packed - to do anything there you need to take the whole car apart.

I won't be very surprised to see quite a few early build problems and parts in short supply in the first year. This was one of the reasons I chose a lease term on my 2013 LEAF that ends 16 months from now. There's leading edge and then there's bleeding edge.

 

[jsongster]

Well... this lends yet more credence to it being a compliance car and not a commitment from the company. If they truly were interested in building this market segment they would pull parts off the assembly line to fix it right away before this 3 car bonfire becomes a forest fire.

Of course what I said is contingent on them actually being interested in a 1.1 rev of the parts to make it better.

Anyone know if the RAV4Ev ever got it's charging timer fix? I almost bought that nice vehicle until these forums informed me of it. That and the lack of a CHAdeMO input cinched it for me.

One of the major reasons I bought the LEAF is Nissan's corporate commitment to the cars. Not as pure a play as Tesla's ( they still sell ICEs) and there have been bumps. The heat accelerated decay of the batteries being the biggest. Took them a while to recalculate the costs and work out a warranty adjustment, and while it is far from perfect at least they are still working on the problems. They are releasing new vehicles (eNV200) using the same battery and motor system. My 2013 model clearly addresses many of the early model shortcomings.

Based on Bavarian Motor Works comments of late ( no more models like this forthcoming ) their response to these problems should prove very useful to consider for future buyers. What this says about the red herring DCFC system called SAE Combo seems obvious.

 

[Beleaf]

At the moment, the only option is a de-iced ICE car with plain looks.

Which car is that ?

From Nissan, the Leaf.

 

[Beleaf]

Well... this lends yet more credence to it being a compliance car and not a commitment from the company. If they truly were interested in building this market segment they would pull parts off the assembly line to fix it right away before this 3 car bonfire becomes a forest fire.

Cursory google search would inform you that this is not a compliance car. By their nature, compliance cars are a distortion of the US marketplace yet the i3 is targeted to a world market. You cannot buy any of the compliance cars in other markets, they are specials cobbled together to achieve a goal for the US market alone. Why would you design a vehicle literally from the ground up, create a whole new manufacturing platform and market a car worldwide to throw a compliance car into the US marketplace?

You wouldn't.

 

[TomT]

I have no idea how you reach that conclusion since the Leaf was engineered from the ground up to be an EV. A different design that the i3 but no more or less a true EV.

At the moment, the only option is a de-iced ICE car with plain looks.

Which car is that ?

From Nissan, the Leaf.

 

[Boomer23]

Well... this lends yet more credence to it being a compliance car and not a commitment from the company. If they truly were interested in building this market segment they would pull parts off the assembly line to fix it right away before this 3 car bonfire becomes a forest fire.

Not to be contrary, but the financial and strategic investments that BMW has made in building several factories in several countries to produce carbon fiber and build the actual i-series cars, the clean sheet design, the effort and thought behind the sustainable energy sources and materials used, combined with the strong push to make this car a success in Europe, as well as the fact that the car is being offered throughout the US belie the argument that this is just a compliance car.

BMW has several goals with the i3 and compliance with US CARB rules is only one of their goals. Their primary market for this car is Europe and they have their eyes on China as well. If US buyers won't buy it, it's not really a problem for BMW. They'll sell enough of them to meet CARB rules, even if it means eventual heavy discounting.

As far as pulling parts off the assembly line, even Nissan doesn't usually do this. Witness people on this forum who had to wait weeks for replacement PDMs on 2013 cars when they had charging issues. With production schedules set in stone, I think that's easier said than done.

 

[Beleaf]

I have no idea how you reach that conclusion since the Leaf was engineered from the ground up to be an EV. A different design that the i3 but no more or less a true EV.

No argument it's a true EV, but it's chassis lineage is from ICE.

The Nissan EV Platform is based on the Nissan B0 platform

True, they didn't pull the ICE out of the car and put the EV works in, but this is a platform that started as an ICE and was modified to suit EV. It makes sense for Nissan to do it this way because of the range of platforms they have on offer. If you see a Leaf next to a Tiida there are definite similarities.

 

[aqn]

I have no idea how you reach that conclusion since the Leaf was engineered from the ground up to be an EV. A different design that the i3 but no more or less a true EV.

No argument it's a true EV, but it's chassis lineage is from ICE.

The Nissan EV Platform is based on the Nissan B0 platform

True, they didn't pull the ICE out of the car and put the EV works in, but this is a platform that started as an ICE and was modified to suit EV. It makes sense for Nissan to do it this way because of the range of platforms they have on offer. If you see a Leaf next to a Tiida there are definite similarities.

Back when the LEAF first came out, many were convinced that it's a modified Versa or is based on the B0 platform. However, Renault-Nissan's own documentation on the B0 platform does not list the LEAF.

 

[Boomer23]

But there are some gear heads and G force junkies on here who've been pining for Nissan to make a sports car EV. IMHO they need pine no longer, if they have the bucks for this one .

And if they can stand the i3 looks. In general G force junkies also look for sharp looking cars - this one isn't (say compared to ESFlow).

vs

Here's a quote from the kind of MNL'er that I'm talking about:

For me, the i3 has the qualities Nissan could have given the LEAF but instead decided to endow it with lard-ass qualities because they were afraid 'Murcans wouldn't go for it otherwise. To wit, the i3 is smaller, and is almost 500 lbs lighter than the LEAF. That's like throwing the battery pack out of the LEAF.

In automotive design, weight reduction pays off everywhere and the weight savings are compounded throughout. Lighter weight means: brake components can be smaller and lighter for the same level of braking performance; structural and suspension pieces can be lighter because they don't have to carry or control as much weight; suspension pieces (springs, dampers, anti-roll bars) can be smaller because they have less weight (both sprung and unsprung (see "smaller brakes")) to control; motive power source can be smaller because it doesn't have to propel as much weight; ditto transmission: with less power (for the same level of performance) to transmit and less weight to propel, the gear set, drive shaft, differential, drive shafts etc. can all be smaller and lighter. Every components being smaller and lighter begets a weight saving which can in turn permit another round of downsizing of every component.

Conversely, adding weight penalizes everywhere and the penalty is compounded just as benefits are compounded for weight savings.

Range? I remember Nissan's claim of 80-100 miles per charge. I NEVER saw 80 miles. Yeah, yeah sure, those of you in the table-top desserts of AZ and South CA may have. Not me. Does BMW fudge their range numbers like Nissan? Time will tell. The availability of a range extender makes the i3 what the GM Volt could have been: simple. Besides, I fail to understand the preoccupation with making EVs behave like ICE vehicles range-wise. That's like putting a rotary dial on cellular phones because one can't get used to a virtual number pad.

Performance? 0-60 in 7+ secs is three whole seconds quicker than the LEAF, and is about what my stock 2005 MkV GTI would do.

Handling? The i3 has the same low CG and tire quality as the LEAF, but it has RWD and 50/50 weight distribution. In the twisties, I fully expect the i3 to hand the LEAF its head.

Looks? I bought the LEAF, didn't I? 'Nuf said.

Size? I am the sole occupant of the car 70% of the time. Another 29+% of the time, it's my wife and I. A tiny fraction of the time, we have luggage. An even smaller fraction of the time, I have three or four occupants in the car. Size is not an issue with me.

The biggish fly in the i3 ointment is the price. Time (and personal priorities) will tell whether the i3's price premium is justified.

 

[Beleaf]

Back when the LEAF first came out, many were convinced that it's a modified Versa or is based on the B0 platform. However, Renault-Nissan's own documentation on the B0 platform does not list the LEAF.

True, because the Leaf is not built on the B0 platform, it is built on the EV Platform which was based on the B0 platform.

5 minutes in a Nissan showroom will reveal the similarities, it's heritage is ICE even though it's a decent EV.

 

[ydnas7]

LEAF is the electric Pulsar Hatch, its not Tiida
Pulsar Hatch is the Sentra (Slyphy) in Hatch form.
Nissan had 2 Pulsar hatch, one from Tiida, and one from Slyphy, so its easy to confuse the 2.

just compare track and wheelbase
or look at the 2 vehicles

Platform in Nissan speak is quite versatile, ie Murano Cabrolet is same platform as Altima and '13 Pathfinder
Obviously these are all quite different vehicles.


BMW, made a BMW thats full of compromises so it wouldn't cannibalise BMW sales, HK pricing of Tesla is very competitve, http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27343-Hong-Kong-Pricing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla actually undercut BMW i3 in Australia

 

[Beleaf]

BMW, made a BMW thats full of compromises so it wouldn't cannibalise BMW sales, HK pricing of Tesla is very competitve, http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27343-Hong-Kong-Pricing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla actually undercut BMW i3 in Australia

Tesla has been taking pre-orders for over a year here and they still have not published the local pricing. $AU6k deposit required. Rumors are the retail will be north of $130k. Australia has no FRT but has GST and Luxury Car Tax.

Tesla is way too large for my needs and over spec in the battery department so even if it were the same price I wouldn't be a buyer. Maybe when the compact arrives after the X in a few years.

I don't think any EV is able to cannibalise BMW ICE sales in the near term so we don't need to worry about that.

 

[evnow]

True, because the Leaf is not built on the B0 platform, it is built on the EV Platform which was based on the B0 platform.

5 minutes in a Nissan showroom will reveal the similarities, it's heritage is ICE even though it's a decent EV.

Going from "pulled engine out of ICE" to the platform is based on an ice platform is a welcome change.

 

[aqn]

Back when the LEAF first came out, many were convinced that it's a modified Versa or is based on the B0 platform. However, Renault-Nissan's own documentation on the B0 platform does not list the LEAF.

True, because the Leaf is not built on the B0 platform, it is built on the EV Platform which was based on the B0 platform.

5 minutes in a Nissan showroom will reveal the similarities, it's heritage is ICE even though it's a decent EV.

Similarities != the same. I am willing to believe that the LEAF is on the B0 platform, or even only based on the B0 platform. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing. It's just that I have not seen proof of that. "They look the same" is not proof. Neither is "they don't look the same" proof of the reverse.

For one thing, the LEAF weighs almost 700 lbs more than the Versa, most of that the battery. I find it hard to believe that Nissan engineers would just throw a 600 lbs battery into a Versa/B0 platform and think that such a combo would pass crash tests...

Also, suspension components of the LEAF and the Versa have different numbers, as one would expect of cars that are quite different.

Here are a couple of threads from way back where this subject was debated:
LEAF -vs- Versa: the series of photos here show the similarities between the two cars, yet clearly show that their sheet metal is completely different.
LEAF is NOT based on the Versa!

 

[Beleaf]

Going from "pulled engine out of ICE" to the platform is based on an ice platform is a welcome change.

You're welcome.

At the design stage, this amounts to the same thing.

 

[surfingslovak]

Well... this lends yet more credence to it being a compliance car and not a commitment from the company.

Jeff, the i3 is not a compliance car, no matter how often this is repeated. There were plenty of growing pains and issues with the LEAF early on as well. The A/C bug, failing inverter boards and heaters, the battery degradation issue, crashing CarWings servers, and now the new PDM on the 2013 model year. Does this make it the LEAF a compliance car? And what would be the criteria for making such a sweeping statement?

 

[evnow]

You're welcome.

At the design stage, this amounts to the same thing.

But such characterizations do a disservice to EV movement. It trivializes differences between conversions like FFE and Leaf.

 

[surfingslovak]

You're welcome.

At the design stage, this amounts to the same thing.

But such characterizations do a disservice to EV movement. It trivializes differences between conversions like FFE and Leaf.

Enough you guys, this is an i3 thread!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdaFr8ZBKx8[/youtube]

 

[evnow]

Enough you guys, this is an i3 thread!

True enough.

BTW, are you getting an i3 ?

 

[surfingslovak]

Enough you guys, this is an i3 thread!

True enough.

BTW, are you getting an i3 ?

Yes, thank you for asking. Here is my configuration. I'm still debating the REx, there has been no official word from CARB. Perhaps it will happen later this week. The manufacturing of US spec cars is supposed to commence on February 21 at the Leipzig factory.