Official California SDG&E Thread

[lonndoggie]

Not TOU-2: Break even production + 350 kWh super off-peak = Pay for 350 kWh super off-peak
With TOu-2: Break even production + 350 kWh for charging = Get credit for 100+ kWh super-off peak.

That's a 450 kWh swing. Won't work nearly this well in winter but other than Dec-Jan the winter months is when I end up with the most surplus production.

Interesting. That's when I end up with no surplus production, and quite a bit of consumption.

Time will tell but an estimate would be somewhere between $50 and $250 for 4200 kWh.

With EW you can figure out how this would work for you, even without the decimal. FWIW the meter seems to be precise.

Which, as I've said, is what I'm doing.

So far--with only about a month's worth of data with the EV meter in place (and one week of that not too meaningful, as we were out of the country, so no EV charging)--EV-TOU-2 would have saved us a little under $60. Damn, that's good! Would've been less had we been charging for that extra week. And, we'll see how it goes once those low-PV-production months come around.

Yes, the meter data is more precise--Matt from the ET Project sent me a spreadsheet with 15 minute data from my meter, which shows values down to the wH. That also showed why, in a full month that I never used the Blink to charge a Leaf (and I even had it unplugged a significant amount of time), I still pulled 9kWh per that meter. Energy Wave showed 0kWh for that whole period--insufficient precision. But those 5 wH intervals add up!

 

[DaveEV]

Yes, the meter data is more precise--Matt from the ET Project sent me a spreadsheet with 15 minute data from my meter, which shows values down to the wH.

Did you happen to ask if they are planning on improving the accuracy of the Energy Wave site? My last email with this question didn't get an answer.

 

[lonndoggie]

Did you happen to ask if they are planning on improving the accuracy of the Energy Wave site? My last email with this question didn't get an answer.

No, but I did say that would be a good thing, and might prevent crank calls from people like me who ask how come you're showing 9kWh of usage on my bill, but I see zero on Energy Waves! :twisted:

 

[wsbca]

Just got an email regarding AB920 excess generation...our true up date was in July. There's new info on the net metering page on the SDG&E site as well:

"The compensation price is a rolling average based on the utility’s Default Load Aggregation Point (DLAP) price from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. This is a wholesale market price that the utility pays other generators. It is currently averaging just under 4 cents per kwhr. "

The actual rate worked out to ~3.6c per kWh - there's a table of the monthly average rates. Pretty disappointing - previous hopes/estimates were more like 6-7c, some even hoped for tier 1 DR retail....the CPUC really rolled over for them. There is a certain logic to the wholesale market price thing...except that's not necessarily clean power, in fact almost surely not, which in theory should be far more valuable to them given the fact that they are so far behind on the legislated renewable mix target. Makes it more clear that anyone with significant excess before they got their car is better off with no second meter, since they'd be paying 6,7,or 14 on the second meter and only getting 3.6 back on their house account. There probably aren't too many of them (us) though.

What has me perplexed (soon to be miffed, I have little doubt) is I was explicitly told that as an alternative to receiving a check, or a billing credit for the calculated dollars, there would be the option to roll over the raw kWh and use them in the future on a 1-1 basis against future usage. I see no option/mechanism for that. I've sent an email, waiting for the prevarication or the claim that they never said that. Maybe a bit of a moot point since now that we have the car, we're not realistically going to be a net producer in future years (in fact at the given rate I'll make sure we aren't), it's more the principle of the thing...and that we had 1000+kWh banked that I wanted to be able to turn into 3200 Leaf miles as needed, not 800 Leaf miles which is how it will effectively work out now.

 

[wsbca]

Following up my own post, I just found this on the CPUC site, which goes a little way toward explaining the low compensation rate:

On the Horizon: Financial Gain from Renewable Attributes
The California Energy Commission (CEC) is currently working on Renewable Portfolio (RPS) certification and
Renewable Energy Credit (REC) ownership verification and tracking protocols. Once this is completed net surplus
generators may be compensated at the net surplus compensation rate plus an adder for their renewable attributes
based on an interim proxy rate derived from the Western Electricity Coordinating Council (WECC) average
renewable energy premium, published by the Department of Energy (DOE).
If the CEC authorizes retroactive RPS certification of net surplus generators, the utilities may retroactively pay the
renewable attribute adder to its eligible customers. Net surplus generators who do not own or do not transfer their
renewable attributes to the utility purchasing their excess generation will be compensated at the net surplus
compensation rate without the renewable attribute adder.

So perhaps the rate will creep up. The "if...may retroactively pay" part sounds a little wishy washy, and the "adder" surely won't be much, but at least they are pursuing the concept. I'm all in favor of the utility getting credit for renewables in their service area as long as it's done somewhat equitably.

 

[solartim]

I guess this is why they need the higher solar connection fees:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?uid=2720&f=25&t=6058&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We had 1700 kW extra on our house next year, for a whopping $65, we rocked a 0.03775 credit rate. Better than paying though. We won't have excess any more, since we're on track for about 8 - 9 k on the car this year. The solar ROI really improved now without paying for gas.

I had looked into TOU when we put the solar on, and there was a monthly fee, around $5 I think. We're sticking with one meter on regular use rates.

 

[wsbca]

Got an email from SDG&E today asking me to take a survey:

Help improve plug-in electric vehicle service and earn a $10 incentive

Dear %%FIRST_NAME%%[sic],

Please take approximately ten minutes to complete a survey about your LEAF™ use and charging habits. You will earn a $10 incentive for your time.*

Anybody else receive this yet? Have you taken it?

 

[DaveEV]

Yep, did that earlier today.

 

[EV2E]

I filled out the survey today. I have solar and have stayed with the standard DR rates. This makes more sense to me as many days I drive more than 70 miles and need to charge during the day between trips.

 

[walterbays]

It's one of the better surveys I've taken. It asks some smart questions, which I'm glad to be asked. Unlike many surveys it offers a "prefer not to answer" choice for any question which might seem too personal.

 

[DaveEV]

Anyone else notice that EPEV rates went down on January 1st? All rates appear to have gone down about $0.01/kWh.

Never seen that happen before. Have to go update the rates on my Blink now.

 

[Randy]

Good observation! Actually, all rates seem to have gone down a bit. Adjustments are done 2-3 times per year, and January 1 is a traditional time to do a true-up. If you want to read more about it, here is the filing that outlines the details...

http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/2323-E.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Randy

 

[ttweed]

If you want to read more about it, here is the filing that outlines the details...

http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/2323-E.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are only interested in the changes to the EPEV rates, I extracted those 3 pages from the full PDF and put the file up on one of my websites for anyone to view and save:
http://members.rennlist.org/tweedt/EPEVrates.pdf

This file has only the charts for the SCHEDULE EPEV-X, Y, and Z groups of the EV Project, so you don't have to scroll through all the other rate schedules, etc.

HTH,
TT

 

[Frank]

When the EV Project is concluded will the three SDG&E experimental rates continue for those that have a separate meter installed? If not, will the second meter have to use the existing EV-TOU rates or will some other rate be offered?

 

[TonyWilliams]

The experimental rates expire. What will actually happen then is anybody's guess. I doubt SDGE knows for sure.

 

[Randy]

The official word at this time is that the experimental rates will be retired when the project is concluded, and all cutomers will be asked to choose from one of the EV rates that exist at that time. If that time were now, the choices would be EV-TOU (two meters) or EV-TOU2 (whole house).

I don't know if any new EV rates will be introduced between now and then...But at least the two rates mentioned above should be available...

Randy

 

[Frank]

The official word at this time is that the experimental rates will be retired when the project is concluded, and all cutomers will be asked to choose from one of the EV rates that exist at that time. If that time were now, the choices would be EV-TOU (two meters) or EV-TOU2 (whole house).

I don't know if any new EV rates will be introduced between now and then...But at least the two rates mentioned above should be available...

Randy

Thanks for the info Randy. If one chooses EV-TOU2 (if it is an option at the time), there would be no need for the second meter anymore. Would the second meter be physically removed in that case or would it just be deactivated by SDG&E resulting in only one electric bill for the entire house? I don't think any rewiring for the charger is necessary if one opts for EV-TOU2 with a single meter but please correct me if I am wrong about that.

 

[stanley]

Where can I find what the EV- TOU rates are currently?

 

[Frank]

Where can I find what the EV- TOU rates are currently?

They can be found here: http://sdge.com/total-residential-electric-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[walterbays]

Where can I find what the EV- TOU rates are currently?

They can be found here: http://sdge.com/total-residential-electric-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks.

I have to believe they will revise the rates based on EV Project experience because they want people to charge at night, and those rates provide little incentive to do so. On the basis of equivalent gasoline price*, the EV-TOU rates are about $1.20/gallon super off-peak (midnight-5am), $2.10/gallon peak summer, and $1.40/gallon other times. Good prices compared to oil burners. And enough incentive to fill up at night whenever you can. But 20 cents a gallon isn't enough incentive to forego filling up whenever it's convenient.

Worse (for SDG&E) since so many EV owners have solar panels, we can just go back to DR rates with enough PV to keep rates in Tier 1, for an equivalent price of $1.20/gallon 24 hours a day 365 days a year: no incentive whatsoever to be "nice" to the grid.

My guess is that their data from the experimental EV Project rates will show that people with a large peak/off-peak difference charge overwhelmingly at night, and people with a small peak/off-peak difference or who are not on TOU rates do not.

--
* Based on 4 mi/kWh EV, 30 MPG gas car, 87% EVSE efficiency (3.3/3.8).