NasGoreList
Well-known member
obviously these tests need to be done side by side to minimize the temperature differences, which have significant impact on battery capacity and performance... find it hard that leaf can only do 60 miles at 60mph
Official Ford Focus Electric Thread
- Thread starter evnow
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Well, actually it also got ~1.7 more miles from ~0.5 kWh in accelerating and decelerating, ~62.4 miles in totalNasGoreList said:
There are many difficulties in "constant speed" range/efficiency testing, the fact that it is literally impossible, being just one of them.
I think a lot of the exaggerated range claims for BEVs at "constant speed" are due to conflating average speed over the entire range test, with the maximum speed, which is only achieved for some part of the entire drive.
Looks like AVTA started to add steady-speed dyno testing in 2013, which allows you to use efficiency at speed to find the calculated theoretical constant-speed, constant temperature, efficiency and range.
Below for 2013 LEAF:
More on dyno testing here:
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/D3/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I understand (and calculate) correctly, this works out to be ~65 range miles at ~75F, assuming the LBC would allow the same ~18.5 kWh from the battery pack during that test, as it did on the 60 mph (at ~57 F) road test, and if the LEAF was catapulted to 60 mph at the beginning of the test, and the LBC allowed the LEAF to continue at speed a bit further into turtle mode.
Note this was also on a post-“break-in mileage of between 4,000 to 6,000 miles" LEAF, and this was the lowest kWh use allowed, out of three constant-speed tests, between 18.5 kWh and 19.2 kWh.
NasGoreList
Well-known member
wonder why you can only get 19.2kwh out of 24kwh battery..when I last looked at my battery via leafstat it showed that I had 20.77kWh available at full charge so ~ 72 miles and change ...if I had 23kwh available that would get me 80 miles range at constant 60mph.
what was the reason again for such conservative approach on how much you can deplete the battery?
what was the reason again for such conservative approach on how much you can deplete the battery?
Moof
Well-known member
In a more perfect world the manufacturers would be required to list the usable kWh in the pack, since if the BMS keeps us from using it why should it count?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
NasGoreList said:
completely agree. In fact, these results are so far from my reality, I consider them to be completely useless
edatoakrun
Well-known member
News from AVTA testing of pack capacity loss for 2013 FFEs conducted in the extreme Phoenix climate.
ICD 2 results (after ~14 months and ~12,000 miles, from baseline) for two of the FFEs have been posted, and show ~10% capacity loss so far:
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus1700.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus2578.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, IMO these very preliminary results suggest the FFE battery pack's ATM may produce limited benefits (when considering differences in time, miles, and seasonality) over the results now showing up for the 2013 LEAFs, as discussed:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18555&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We should know a lot more when the results for more of the packs, over the longer terms, are posted.
All reports for all tested BEVs available at the main page here:
http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ICD 2 results (after ~14 months and ~12,000 miles, from baseline) for two of the FFEs have been posted, and show ~10% capacity loss so far:
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus1700.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus2578.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, IMO these very preliminary results suggest the FFE battery pack's ATM may produce limited benefits (when considering differences in time, miles, and seasonality) over the results now showing up for the 2013 LEAFs, as discussed:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18555&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We should know a lot more when the results for more of the packs, over the longer terms, are posted.
All reports for all tested BEVs available at the main page here:
http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
10% even with a very robust TMS? interesting...
GRA
Well-known member
IIRR, as discussed elsewhere (upthread? INEL tests on the LEAF? I forget), the FFE's TMS may be somewhat irrelevant, as its turn-on setpoint seems to be rather high, allowing the battery to get quite hot before it turns on. Either that, or it does a fairly poor job of cooling the battery. Ed's memory of where that discussion is may be better than mine.DaveinOlyWA said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Previous page?
GRA
Well-known member
No, I looked at that, and remember we got into a more detailed discussion somewhere. It was probably in the LEAF INEL thread.edatoakrun said:
GRA
Well-known member
Via GCR:
Too little, too late, but better than nothing, and makes 4 CCS BEVs sold in the U.S.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101359_updated-2017-ford-focus-electric-100-mile-range-dc-fast-charging
Too little, too late, but better than nothing, and makes 4 CCS BEVs sold in the U.S.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
We plan to offer JdeMO for the Ford Focus Electric
CHAdeMO quick charging at over 10,000 stations worldwide
Available in mid / late 2016
www.QuickChargePower.com
CHAdeMO quick charging at over 10,000 stations worldwide
Available in mid / late 2016
www.QuickChargePower.com
cwerdna
Well-known member
Indeed... article mentions "The 100-mile 2017 Ford Focus Electric will go into production "late next year," the company said."GRA said:
Really? Definitely way too late. And, it was pretty silly of them to still go along w/Frankenplug. At least they'll finally have a vehicle that actually utilizes a standard that they only "supported", until this vehicle ships.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
All the Ford dealers I've checked around here have none in stock, will only special order them, and have no trained techs, so what's the point? Also no EVSE.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Is this a CCS to CHadeMo adapter?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
DNAinaGoodWay said:
No. It's a CHAdeMO inlet. It has nothing to do with any existing charge ports.
redLEAF
Well-known member
GRA said:
There was a slim possibility that the original FFE was to be available before the LEAF in the Chicago market a few years back but as history tells us, that simply wasn't to be; these are still quite a rare occurrence out this way. The compromised cargo space, (initial) high price of entry, limited to zero dealer interest ... just had too much going against it and still no regrets from me in the 4 years we've had our LEAF; kind of a shame really as I've owned a few Ford's over the years; not surprised they went with the SAE combo if that ends up being true, just one more example of not being a mainstream EV player.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
OK, sorry, should've looked at your website first. I've no plans for a CCS car, but wouldn't want to wire it in anyway. So, might you offer more than the CHadeMo/Tesla adapter in future? Might be a market for CHadeMo/CCS, or CCS/CHadeMo. If either are possible.
GRA
Well-known member
CCS is pretty mainstream now, and will be even more so in the future (in the U.S.: it's definitely mainstream in Europe now, 1,615 CCS-2 vs. 2,755 CHAdeMO there - see http://insideevs.com/1600-combo-chargers-in-europe-includes-chademo-comparison/ ) as both German (VW group, Daimler, BMW) and U.S. manufacturers (GM with the Bolt, Ford, etc.) introduce cars that use it. While the number of CHAdeMO both here and in Europe is still larger, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of CCS that are both available to the general public 24/7 and working is equal or greater than CHAdeMO, as so many of the CHAdeMOs were installed at dealerships with restricted access, and/or have gone unmaintained. At least with eVgo, they've avoided the former, and seem to be doing a good job of preventing the latter. Whether the BMW 24kW CCS-only units at motels and the like will be similarly maintained remains to be seen. And the manufacturers seem to have recognized that with longer range BEVs appearing they need higher power chargers, as Audi is talking about 150kW as a first stage CCS increase, and looking to well above that down the road.redLEAF said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
GRA said:
Certainly, in Europe, they have gone "above and beyond" the call of duty by trying to first outlaw CHAdeMO, the. restrict it, and finally accept it as an official EU standard (with continuous attempts within Germany alone to outlaw, restrict or otherwise harass any completion). As we are all painfully aware, the primary European supporters of CCS are the German government and the German auto manufacturers.
Your assumption that CHAdeMO (some stations that have been in the ground for 4 years) don't work, but that miraculously, CCS stations all will work and won't be at dealerships seems like something a German bureaucrat might say.
I suspect, however, that isn't true.
Ford actually started asking for the 150kW charging first... yes, Ford.
I find it highly likely that the future 150kW Chargers will neither be fully compatible with the current 25-50kW CCS Combo1 chargers in the USA, nor the CCS Combo2 chargers in Europe.
What I find VERY LIKELY is Tesla leap-frogging that 150kW standard as if a Ford, GM, and German Auto manufacturer automobile were in reverse!
What isn't mentioned much in the over 100kW arena is the CHAdeMO Association... they seem to be very quiet on the issue.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
EV Warning light on but no error codes in LeafSpy Pro
- Latest: cornbinder89
-
-
-
55% battery drain in 10 miles, 2022 Leaf?- Latest: Antonio Peterson
-
-
-
