evnow
Well-known member
In terms of size this should be similar to Ford C-Max.
Official Mercedes B-class EV thread
- Thread starter redLEAF
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MrIanB
Well-known member
redLEAF said:MrIanB said:
They are close overall with the MBZ being 3.4 inches shorter in length but rear leg room can be much more in the B-class but may not apply to the electric due to the battery pack, the gas version is already sold in Canada, both are 5-door hatch backs, will be curious as to overall fit & finish as well as MBZ typical approach to option packages (if any) which can drive the price way up, the production version as already mentioned was at the NY Auto Show:
B-Class (applies to the gas version so may be a little different):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_B-Class
http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/b-class/2013/?sub=hatchback
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/03/2014-mercedes-benz-b-class-electric-drive-up-close.html
Length 171.6 in
Width 70.3 in
Height 61.3 in
Cargo 23.5 cu. ft.
Rear Leg room (can expand to) 38 in
2013 LEAF
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2013/features-specs.html?style=&sub=hatchback
Length 175 in
Width 69.7 in
Height 61 in
Cargo 24 cu. ft.
Rear Leg room 33.3 in
Thanks for the info. Wanted to see how it compared to the Leaf in size. I already discarded the BMW I as it is smaller than the Leaf.
Ian B
Valdemar
Well-known member
Does it say 400V on the back of the charging port door in the picture above? What is that?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Valdemar said:
230 volt 3 phase in EU.
Valdemar
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Still L2, right?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
evnow said:
I've had a C-Max diesel with 6 speed manual for about a week, and will have it another two weeks. The uber accurate range test came up with 5 liters per 100km at 100kmh ground speed from GPS.
You guys can convert that all to US - English Imperial measure. It's VERY efficient and much bigger than LEAF.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Valdemar said:
Well, technically, no, since that's a SAE spec.
It's Mennekes.
Valdemar
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
I meant it is not for quick charger, just higher voltage and ~7Kwh charge rate?
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Off-topic.
Whenever I see a dimensions like those below, I wonder about alternate seating configurations for BEVs that are more efficient and less ICEV-like.
The obvious example would be a BEV that could seat 6 passengers comfortably, in three rows of two, allowing higher m/kWh due to the reduced drag of a narrower and longer car, but with greater capacity than the LEAF with 2 + 3 seating.
The LEAF can only seat two in the front seats, and three in the rear is not exactly spacious.
Why not make a sub-compact width, full-length BEV ~8" to 12" narrower, and 1' to 2' longer than the LEAF, with both the second and third rows of seats foldable (and/or removable) for cargo?
Would this seem too radical to attract BEV buyers?
Do drivers really need the extra room between them and the shotgun passenger to feel comfortable?
Whenever I see a dimensions like those below, I wonder about alternate seating configurations for BEVs that are more efficient and less ICEV-like.
The obvious example would be a BEV that could seat 6 passengers comfortably, in three rows of two, allowing higher m/kWh due to the reduced drag of a narrower and longer car, but with greater capacity than the LEAF with 2 + 3 seating.
The LEAF can only seat two in the front seats, and three in the rear is not exactly spacious.
Why not make a sub-compact width, full-length BEV ~8" to 12" narrower, and 1' to 2' longer than the LEAF, with both the second and third rows of seats foldable (and/or removable) for cargo?
Would this seem too radical to attract BEV buyers?
Do drivers really need the extra room between them and the shotgun passenger to feel comfortable?
redLEAF said:
evnow
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Ford C-Max in Europe is not the one you get here. There it is much bigger. I think it is called Grand C-Max, there.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
edatoakrun said:
that has to be the lengthiest "how about an EV Mini-Van" I have ever seen
redLEAF
Well-known member
Valdemar said:
The first link states:
"The battery of the B-Class Electric Drive can be recharged at any standard domestic power outlet. In the USA, the charging time for a range of about 60 miles (100 kilometers) is less than 2 hours at 240 V/40 A." so yes, it's L2 level voltage but more than likely a SAE 'plug' not CHAdeMO as VW, BMW and others are moving to that standard. Will be curious as if I where to get one of these if my existing L2 J1772 EV 'charger' would work with an adapter as its rated at 30A but assume it could
edatoakrun
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Well, sort of like your grandfather's minivan.
But with both length and width increased to meet the contemporary needs of our expanding population...
http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/fiat-multipla.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I haven't seen any ICEV or BEV with this configuration, recently.
Maybe we'll be lucky, and Fiat will produce a multipla variant of the EV 500, just like they did for the original 500, almost 60 years ago.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
redLEAF said:
is it just me or does anyone else see a problem with mounting the charging port on the side of the car? this insures that only one Mercedes can charge at one station unless a car on the other side of the station backs in.
with charging port up front, you could position the charger to service 4 parking spaces...
redLEAF
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Agree, as again this was an ICE conversion the mfg's simply convert the gas filler location with the EV connection point not accounting for both public EV chargers or for that matter those in people's garages. For us the location on our LEAF port has worked out quite well as we have a tandem garage with our charger installed in the middle so the cord never needs to even lay on the ground when it charges.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Valdemar said:
Well, Mercedes is calling it "quick charging", but it's a 40 amp Tesla charger, just like every Model S and Rav4 EV gen II.
If you're asking, "is it a DC quick charger port", the answer is no. It has neither a Frankenplug, CHAdeMO, or Tesla DC charge port.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
redLEAF said:
Yes, of course, any amp rated J1772 EVSE would work with the LEAF. No adapter needed.
It's a bit of a stretch to say the "Frankenplug Fab 8+1" are switching over to CHAdeMO. Quite the opposite; in Germany, the government is putting in gazillions of charging stations and they absolutely will be the Euro spec 3 phase AC power "Mennekes" style Frankenplug. The goal for them is to just pop in a USA spec single phase Frankenplug receptacle for our market.
Now, what will practically happen in the USA is anybody's guess, but for me, the only hope I see for USA spec Frankenplug is for GM / BMW to petition all the government contacts to tell them how awesome-o that their new "standard" is and to give them money to install them. Ecotality is already banging the drum to get the government to give them money to make their horrendously poor quality, government funded Blink DC CHAdeMO chargers into Frankenplug ones.
The bad news; BMW will have a tough time selling USA government dudes how a German company needs to institute their Euro standard here, and GM doesn't really care (beyond slowing down Nissan) with a few thousand Spark EV compliance cars planned with Frankenplug and some planning for a teeny tiny Smart sized 100-200 mile car with no announced DC charging of any type. The other three USA manufacturers (Ford, Chrysler/Fiat, and Tesla) don't push Frankenplug nor have ANY cars planned to use the Frankenplug.
It does seem there is cracks in the Fab8+1 with VW suggesting a CHAdeMO option for Japan and Tesla offering a CHAdeMO adapter.
Frankenplug Fab 8+1 Cast Members:
1. Audi - June 3, 2012 - cancels EV plans http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076657_audi-cans-electric-a2-city-car-a1-e-tron-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2. BMW - i3, Fall 2013/Early 2014 - these guys are the only ones of any of the Frankenplug consortium to have a serious EV program, that goes beyond just meeting California Air Resources Board ZEV standards.
http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; [no specific mention of Frankenplug, but it is widely known that is their intention. Also, it doesn't mention if Frankenplug is standard or optional, but the range extender is optional.
"The battery can be fully recharged in six hours at a standard power socket [230 volts in Europe, not our 120v]. If a high-speed charger is used an 80 per cent charge can be achieved in just one hour..... The BMW i3 Concept therefore offers an optional range extender, the REx, which allows the driving range to be increased. REx, a small, very smooth-running and quiet petrol engine, drives a generator"
3. Chrysler / Fiat - they don't even want to take "free" government money to develop EVs, and gave it back. Nada from them. The Fiat 500e compliance car has no mention of quick charging or combo plug (nor J1772), only 240 and 120 volt charge times.
4. Daimler - working with Tesla on B class, which means unlikely their first EV efforts will have anything more than what the Toyota Rav4 EV has.... no DC fact charger. The pictures shown so far have enough room for a CHAdeMO plug along side the Mennekes plug for the European market. Presumably, a J1772 plug would be used in North America.
Smart EV has no DC quick charge capability.
5. Ford - nada. The Focus EV is a luke warm effort to comply with CARB.
6. General Motors - Spark, Spring 2014. Just a California CARB compliance car. Toyota has to sell 2600 Rav4 EVs, so I suspect GM must sell a similar volume.
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/chevrolet-spark-ev-will-be-made-south-korea-43108.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Frankenplug is optional on Spark EV and initial markets include California, Oregon, Canada, South Korea and other global markets.
“The Spark EV will be sold in limited quantities in select U.S. and global markets starting in 2013 (as a 2014 model), including California,” Fox said. “We have not announced any additional markets beyond California and have not said exactly when in 2013 they will be available. More news and information will be coming as we get closer to the introduction and launch of the Spark EV.”
"“The Spark EV will be produced in Changwon, South Korea, the same location as the Spark with the internal combustion engine," said GM's Randy Fox, Electric Vehicle Technology Communications."
"Actually, the Spark EV's range – along with curb weight, price, top speed, on-board charger details, and other specifications – are still not being shared, Fox said, as these are still being finalized."
"Although Fox did not say so, it’s likely the company will continue using SAE charging connections as it does with the Volt, and not CHAdeMO. He did confirm DC fast charging will be available."
7. Porsche - nada
8. Renault - tentative and tepid announcement after the other 8 announced that they are "in". No car announced to handle it, though, and they announced their own 43kW AC "Chameleon" fast charger and support of CHAdeMO that sister company Nissan uses.
9. Volkswagen - They have a ChadeMo Blink at their San Francisco tech center, and plan to use converted Golf's in 2013, presumably to be strictly CARB compliance cars:
"Volkswagen, a major promoter of the Combo system, plans to put EVs on the market around the world from 2013 by converting some of its Golf and other popular models.
While Volkswagen will use the Combo system as the charging system for its EVs, the company will modify relevant units to accommodate the CHAdeMo system for the Japanese market."
I would guess that the not specifically mentioned USA that will have beau coup ChadeMo's compared to perhaps zero Frankenplugs might also get those "modified / accommodated" VW cars here in the USA.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/08/2121867/automakers-aim-to-set-global-standard.html#storylink=cpy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“DC charging” refers to a charging protocol in which a charging station supplies direct current to a plug-in vehicle’s battery pack. This type of charging, which can be used to “quick charge” some compatible battery packs to 80% state-of-charge (SOC) in as little as ten to twenty minutes, contrasts with the much more common AC charging protocols, in which alternating charging current is supplied to the vehicle and is rectified to direct current by the vehicle’s on-board charger component, which then charges the battery pack.
Efforts to find consensus on a single charging standard have so far been elusive, particularly with respect to DC charging. Although the CHAdeMO DC charging standard prevails in Japan, with almost 1400 such chargers installed in that country, it is not integrated with AC charging. A CHAdeMO-complaint vehicle therefore requires a large charging door (e.g., Nissan LEAF) or two separate charging doors (e.g., Mitsubishi i-MiEV).
Volkswagen executives indicated that they had met with CHAdeMO representatives in the past to discuss a single charging standard, but were unable to come to an agreement; one executive reminisced “that was a very difficult discussion” which “quickly became political”. Although many manufacturers of plug-in vehicles, including Volkswagen, support the SAE J1772 AC-DC “combo connector” standard in the US market, as well as the somewhat similar VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2 AC-DC standard in Europe, one VW executive remarked “we don’t want to discriminate” on charging standards, explaining “...the investors and the users will decide”.
Valdemar
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Not 40 amp on a EU 400V circuit though, right? That would mean ~16kWh on-board charger.
cwerdna
Well-known member
5 liters per 100 km is 47 miles per US gallonTonyWilliams said:
Google makes a great unit converter.
Google for 5 liters per 100 km in miles per us gallon.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Valdemar said:
I suspect (but clearly don't know) that they will only use one phase (230v) of the 400v three phase at 40 amps.
That way, it works the same here as there.
