Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[EVDRIVER]

I have never heard this on
Any Tesla.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Just to change the subject but not the thread, I noticed my Model 3 does NOT have the obnoxious VSP when I'm in reverse. Either it isn't installed, isn't working, or isn't enabled. I'm OK with any of those situations. So much for the argument about quiet cars absolutely needing these noisemakers.

By the way, in reverse I've driven into oh, say, absolutely no one in my LEAF or Model 3.

Just as my great aunt, who died* at age eighty-something, proved that chain smoking doesn't result in early death.



* Of lung cancer.

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.teslafudtracker.com/

Not buying it's accuracy. It lists seekingalpha.com as having only 5 FUD articles? They have 5 per day! Or maybe the authors have figured out a way to bypass the FUD keyword detectors at the heart of this site.

I agree about its accuracy, or likely lack of. Seekingalpha should way higher. I figured zerohedge would be, as well.

One could keep having https://archive.org/web/ take snapshots via the box on the right side.

 

[Zythryn]

Just to change the subject but not the thread, I noticed my Model 3 does NOT have the obnoxious VSP when I'm in reverse. Either it isn't installed, isn't working, or isn't enabled. I'm OK with any of those situations. So much for the argument about quiet cars absolutely needing these noisemakers.

By the way, in reverse I've driven into oh, say, absolutely no one in my LEAF or Model 3.

As I recall, the rules requiring noise starts going into effect next year, and will complete their phase-in period over 2-3 years.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

A friend is ordering a model 3 and asked me if he should get the AWD. Certainly not needed for traction in Florida but he said you get better acceleration and handling at the expense of some range. I didn't know what to tell him other than for resale buyers in that price range probably want performance.

He also asked about the upgraded wheels, apparently they also take some off the range, but the standard wheels look like garbage can lids. Seems they made other options like the glass roof standard, so other than charging for upgraded colors and various levels of autonomous driving there aren't a lot of choices to be made.

Any recommendations?

 

[lpickup]

Any recommendations?

So here are my thoughts:

1) I totally agree that AWD is completely unnecessary in the south. Heck, I'm not even sure it's necessary in the north with all the advanced traction control that is available in the car. On the other hand, it seems like a relatively affordable option for an entire second motor. Sure, you get a bit better acceleration, but the RWD already has incredible acceleration, so make sure you really think you need that extra 0.6 seconds 0-60 before dropping the money. There is no sacrifice in range, although there is no gain either (Model S and X actually GAIN range with AWD due to tuning of the second motor for highway speeds). Also, I have heard stories of people ordering RWD vehicles and getting them almost immediately, whereas there is probably still a line for AWD. If it were me, I'd just stick with RWD. The main reason for getting AWD at this point is that it allows you to get the white interior.

2) Standard wheels. The wheels he is talking about are just aero covers. They pop right off and I don't think the underlying wheel is all that bad looking. I put my aero covers on for trips and keep them off the rest of the time. He ought to search the web for pictures of the standard wheels without the aero covers on before making the decision to plunk down an extra $1500 for 19" wheels. Here is a good picture: https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-3-aero-wheel-cap-kit.html which allows me to mention that there are lug nut caps and a center T logo cap that you should get (from that page) to complete the look.

3) He's not quite right about the glass roof and other options being "standard". They just aren't offered yet. You HAVE to buy the $5,000 premium upgrades package. But yes, effectively there aren't really any other choices.

 

[EVDRIVER]

A friend is ordering a model 3 and asked me if he should get the AWD. Certainly not needed for traction in Florida but he said you get better acceleration and handling at the expense of some range. I didn't know what to tell him other than for resale buyers in that price range probably want performance.

He also asked about the upgraded wheels, apparently they also take some off the range, but the standard wheels look like garbage can lids. Seems they made other options like the glass roof standard, so other than charging for upgraded colors and various levels of autonomous driving there aren't a lot of choices to be made.

Any recommendations?

Get the awd, much better driving all around and way better resale. Wheels look much better too but more to taste. I say yes to both.

 

[Zythryn]

A friend is ordering a model 3 and asked me if he should get the AWD. Certainly not needed for traction in Florida but he said you get better acceleration and handling at the expense of some range. I didn't know what to tell him other than for resale buyers in that price range probably want performance.

He also asked about the upgraded wheels, apparently they also take some off the range, but the standard wheels look like garbage can lids. Seems they made other options like the glass roof standard, so other than charging for upgraded colors and various levels of autonomous driving there aren't a lot of choices to be made.

Any recommendations?

As noted above, the standard wheel cover has a simple cover you can remove. Buy a lugnut cover cap set and you can simply remove them, the wheel underneath is quite nice.
The larger wheel shortens your range costs more, and gives a rougher ride.

If possible, I would suggest your friend test drive a RWD and AWD and see how he likes the handling of each.
While the epa range is the same for AWD and RWD, the efficiency listed for RWD is better than AWD.
Tesla requested a lower range rating than what they were tested at. So basically, the RWD can beat that range by a lot, the AWD can beat it by a little.

 

[EVDRIVER]

You can’t test a rwd only a P which usually has different wheels. The aero wheels with the covers off look like aftermarket wheels and make the car look mismatched. If the budget is there I would get the awd, I have driven every version of the 3 and there is no way I would get a rwd as the awd performance, handling and regen is vastly superior. Anyone considering the awd should get it since many that did not are regretting it after driving the other car. The efficiency difference is minimal and the tires on the nicer wheels are better and the difference in ride is not really an issue because of that. They have changed the suspension and even the P feels ok with its wheels.

 

[lpickup]

Tesla requested a lower range rating than what they were tested at. So basically, the RWD can beat that range by a lot, the AWD can beat it by a little.

I may have mentioned it here before, but I continue to be blown away at the efficiency of my RWD. In my 2012 LEAF, I could eke out 4.4mi/Kwh under ideal conditions, but normally it was around 4.2 during the summer and 3.8-3.9 during the winter.

With my heavier 2016 LEAF I might every now and then hit 4.1, but it was usually 4.0 in the summer and 3.6 in the winter.

Of course Tesla switches the units around, but my August overall efficiency is 239 Wh/mile (4.2 mi/kWh), and I believe that includes all the cabin overheat protection, pre-conditioning, etc.

What really blows me away though is driving on long highway trips (with aeros on of course), my efficiency is between 199-216 Wh/mile (4.6-5.0 mi/kWh). And believe me, I am not doing anything special to hypermile or anything. I just set autopilot and go.

I have yet to take my big trip I take each summer (750 miles each way), but using abetterrouteplanner.com and it's conservative 247 Wh/mile @ 65mph reference consumption, already the limiting factor appears to be my wife and me: even though navigation says it should take 12.5 hours, we typically take 15 hours with stops, but the planner tool predicts the car would only need a total of 67 minutes of total charging time (it suggests 3 stops for 15, 29 and 22 minutes -- I can tell you that over 15 hours worth of driving, we need a few more than 3 stops!) If I lower it's consumption model to 220 Wh/mile, the stops become 10, 24 and 18 minutes. 52 minutes total. Wow. Just Wow.

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

A friend is ordering a model 3 and asked me if he should get the AWD. Certainly not needed for traction in Florida but he said you get better acceleration and handling at the expense of some range. I didn't know what to tell him other than for resale buyers in that price range probably want performance.

He also asked about the upgraded wheels, apparently they also take some off the range, but the standard wheels look like garbage can lids. Seems they made other options like the glass roof standard, so other than charging for upgraded colors and various levels of autonomous driving there aren't a lot of choices to be made.

Any recommendations?

I have the RWD LR and never test drove the others. It feels GREAT and super efficient on the highway. I don't know what kind of roads ipickup drives on, but I was averaging 230wh/mi @79mph on the flat side of interstate 5.

I think if your friends cheap, he'll be perfectly happy with the RWD ... as long as he doesn't test any of the other versions.

 

[SalisburySam]

A friend is ordering a model 3 and asked me if he should get the AWD. Certainly not needed for traction in Florida but he said you get better acceleration and handling at the expense of some range. I didn't know what to tell him other than for resale buyers in that price range probably want performance.

He also asked about the upgraded wheels, apparently they also take some off the range, but the standard wheels look like garbage can lids. Seems they made other options like the glass roof standard, so other than charging for upgraded colors and various levels of autonomous driving there aren't a lot of choices to be made.

Any recommendations?

I think your advice is on target: for resale, the more "tricked out" from the factory a vehicle is, the higher the price it can command...in general. After-market add-ons can obtain higher or lower prices depending upon the buyer, but the buyer community generally becomes smaller in such specialized mods.

As to AWD affording "...better acceleration and handling...," you (or your friend) should check independent formal car reviews for details as they have probably done some empirical measuring. From my seat-of-the-pants perspective, I'm not sure the statement is true beyond an unnoticeably small amount, except in situations where AWD's improved traction is likely to help. And I'm not sure from personal experience if even that's true. If you want performance, that's what the Performance model is all about and it commands a performance price.

As to AWD's "...expense of some range." that's also debatable in and of itself. Tesla has done an amazing job of power allocation in the vehicle and AWD cars are showing and getting the same range as RWD. The Tesla website also shows this.

As to wheels, it's buyer's choice here. The larger 19" and 20" rims do detract from mileage a bit over the 18" rims mostly because of their different construction and adhesion properties. Note I say rims since the overall diameter of the entire rim and tire is the same for all 3. The larger rims use smaller profile tires. This keeps speedometers working properly among other things. The 18" wheels can be used with and without the aero covers; the covers supposedly offer a bit more range because of their aerodynamics, and there are lots of tests in forums that do show a modest savings with them on. That said, at lower city speeds, aerodynamics is really not an issue so they won't help there. This is more of an issue of looks and desirability to the owner than anything else.

"...other options like glass roof standard..." is not an accurate statement. The glass roof is an upgrade included with the Premium Interior. That said, no cars yet are being made withOUT the package so for all practical purposes it is a standard bundled into a presumably higher vehicle price. To date, that price is and has been the $49k "base" price. If and when the short range vehicle becomes available, that package may begin to be charged for. Or not. Only Tesla knows.

The real questions are which trim (Performance, AWD, or RWD), which color interior (black, white), which wheel size, how fast you want to go (P=155mph, AWD=145mph, RWD=140mph), and how fast you want to get there (P=3.5sec for 0-60, AWD=4.5sec, RWD=5.1sec). And oh yeah, price. Of the minimally configured yet available cars today, the RWD starts at $49k. Add $5k for AWD. Add another $10k to that for Performance. As your friend mentioned, that's without choosing a non-basic black color, or the extent of autonomous driving you'd like.

One last item in this interminably long post: cruise control. If you order any Model 3 and do NOT order EAP, you will get a basic cruise control only. That means get to desired speed, enable CC, and it will keep you at that speed. You will not have any of the Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) features enabled in EAP such as following distance, modifying speeds to vehicles in front up to your set limit, following a vehicle to a complete stop at, for example, a traffic light or stop sign, and returning to speed when that vehicle in front accelerates, all without touching the brake or accelerator. Note that EAP does not yet recognize traffic lights or stop signs, only the moving or lack thereof of the vehicle in front of you.

I would suggest to your friend that s/he strongly consider paying the freight for the EAP. These electronics are really what define a Tesla and new features are being added all the time over the air without owner involvement other than granting permission. In my case, the EAP was worth far more to me than the AWD, and I have no regrets. But that's me. Regardless of the Model 3 your friend gets, s/he will love it.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The AWD 3 has substantially more power than the RWD model. the RWD 3 is very laggy off the line in comparison to all Tesla cars and the AWD is a night and day difference. I expect the AWD model to have a much higher proportionate resale value since many people are learning about the differences and the 3 is not the same as other Tesla models as it uses the PM motor in the rear and induction up front so the rear motor is maxed out unlike it has been in the past. There also may be some other surprises for AWD owners announced down the road Bottom line it is not just about driving in snow, etc and if you look at the comments and impressions of many 3 owners there is a reason there was a massive switch from RWD to AWD in both reservations and orders and also many regrets for not. First time EV drivers are not a good gauge on this until they spend time in a comparative car. If you drive to the grocery store a few times a week you may not care. If you value the driving experience, better handling, traction, safety, 0-60, more regen, and resale then get the AWD. The AWD is the absolute best bang for the buck upgrade on the 3, and the P performance value is not there unless you really want that extra performance since the AWD really pushes that gap already. In rainy conditions you have much more road control with the AWD as well and painted sidewalks and slippery surfaces are never a concern. I have high sided on many drives where the AWD has got me out.

Lastly, don't buy the car without EAP unless you are prepared to own it til it dies as few will buy the car that way and if your budget only allows for one get the EAP. Also take the opinion of non-Tesla owners with a grain of salt on this one as well as newbie EV owners, many of their impressions are that the RWD 3 is incredibly fast and it is true since many people are switching from very low performance cars or slow EVs like the LEAF. The RWD felt like it had an anchor attached in comparison to my 85D. The lag on the PM drive is really irritating but it does make up for it in the top end.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll pass them along.

One comment, obviously when you buy a more expensive car (or add options) you expect higher resale value, but in particular the concern would be not getting options most people want and your resale is decreased by more than the options cost to begin with.

Case in point, he's dumping a Lexus that cost $50k for $20k. Sure his resale is $10k higher than my Sentra of about the same age, but he spent $35k more to get that extra $10k. Then again he got to drive a Lexus instead of a Sentra

 

[EVDRIVER]

The resale value on an AWD Teslas is based more on demand vs total price paid. I expect the demand for AWD to increase over time and more buyers looking for AWD vs RWD. Also more EVs are headed in this direction. Also the export buyers often prefer AWD. Besides the resale the bigger question is the driving benefits, there is a trend toward more AWD buying in the auto market and a very large increase in Tesla models. Tesla was not prepared for the high demand the got on the AWD.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Lastly, don't buy the car without EAP unless you are prepared to own it til it dies as few will buy the car that way and if your budget only allows for one get the EAP...

That isn't strictly true. EAP can be added later by the original owner or a subsequent owner, albeit at a higher price than the option on a new car. All Model 3s have the hardware for EAP.

My guess is that Model 3 cars taken in trade by Tesla, and resold as CPO, will have EAP turned on so that Tesla can sell them for a higher price (they did this with Supercharging on early Model S cars, where it was an option — all CPOs had Supercharging enabled).

FWIW.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes of course it can but you pay more so if you are keeping the car for a very long time
You won’t care about it but if you are selling it you will pay more to add it inevitably.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Take this advice for what it is but I suggested to my friend that he makes sure to get the things that can't be readily changed the way he wants. Fancy wheels and software upgrades can be added later even if they cost a bit more, but no AWD or a chintzy paint finish are forever.

 

[Deleted member 1622]

Is there anyone out there with information on exactly when Tesla hit its 200,000th car? As a Model 3 res holder from Day 1 (in person), I am still waiting for the standard version... and waiting, and waiting. It’s now clear to me that this waiting is going to cost me a lot of money on federal credits, because it’s likely I will get half, or even a quarter of it. We’re talking about thousands of dollars lost. Why shouldn’t we just get a 2019 Leaf (60 kWh) or a Bolt with the same range? I know Elon has problems, but deserting all his standard version consumers was a really bad decision.
JG

 

[cwerdna]

Is there anyone out there with information on exactly when Tesla hit its 200,000th car? As a Model 3 res holder from Day 1 (in person), I am still waiting for the standard version... and waiting, and waiting. It’s now clear to me that this waiting is going to cost me a lot of money on federal credits, because it’s likely I will get half, or even a quarter of it. We’re talking about thousands of dollars lost. Why shouldn’t we just get a 2019 Leaf (60 kWh) or a Bolt with the same range? I know Elon has problems, but deserting all his standard version consumers was a really bad decision.
JG

It was in the news awhile ago. A quick Google search for tesla hits 200,000 turned up https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-tax-credit/tesla-hits-200000-cars-meaning-lower-tax-credit-for-buyers-idUSKBN1K222F, for example. Googling for tesla 200,000 turned up https://insideevs.com/tesla-likely-passed-200k-deliveries/. If you monitor sites like https://insideevs.com/ or https://www.greencarreports.com/, you'd have known.

Tesla put this up: https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives.

Yes, it sucks. Judging by https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#battery stating "Standard Battery available in 5-8 months", you will likely be in the 1/2 or 1/4 tax credit boat.

Side note: On another non-Tesla forum (that's also not reddit), there are some Tesla fanboys and apologists basically claiming the situation essentially doesn't matter, they're "making history" and that nobody (like you) was harmed. :roll: I can point you to their exact posts, if you want to chime in. Tesla stated back in end of July 2017 at https://web.archive.org/web/20170731003139/https://www.tesla.com/support/model-3-reservations-faq:

Which future options will be made available to order, and when?
We are planning to introduce the following options in the coming months:

Fall 2017: White interior option, standard configuration (non-Premium Upgrades)
November 2017: Standard Battery, $35,000 car
Spring 2018: Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive

We still have no idea timeline for the longer range '19 Leaf (probably ~60 kWh). We know it's supposed to be model year '19 and one can make a guess as to the month ranges that could fall within. Or, it could be late, just like Tesla's WAY late w/the SR version of the 3...