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GRA said:
I agree it's driving everyone else, everyone's jumping on the bandwagon to beat a car that AFAIK hasn't even rolled on its own tires on a test mule yet. Tesla's doing just what Musk hoped it would - prod the rest.
Yes. I don't think some people get that Musk wants more competition in the BEV space. Tesla was created because he didn't think the major automakers were doing enough to develop BEVs.
 
What percentage of current LEAF drivers are likely to switch to a Model 3, first chance they get? That would be a good poll.

No dealer hassle & supercharger access will be a hard combination to beat. I don't see how any of the upcoming gen 2 BEVs will be able to compete. Maybe a 48 kWh eNV200, just for size.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
What percentage of current LEAF drivers are likely to switch to a Model 3, first chance they get? That would be a good poll.

No dealer hassle & supercharger access will be a hard combination to beat. I don't see how any of the upcoming gen 2 BEVs will be able to compete. Maybe a 48 kWh eNV200, just for size.
I'm planning to make the switch. The chance to go with one car, no ICE, and still be able to make long trips is too good to pass up.

For me, the Supercharger network changes everything about EVs. Other 200 mile range EVs just wouldn't compare.
 
dgpcolorado said:
I'm planning to make the switch. The chance to go with one car, no ICE, and still be able to make long trips is too good to pass up.

For me, the Supercharger network changes everything about EVs. Other 200 mile range EVs just wouldn't compare.

I'm right there with you. Ready to make the switch, and as soon as they start taking reservations I'm signing up.
 
Depends on the car to me..
When I upgrade, I'll be looking at whatever is available.
The new Leaf and the Model 3 will be pretty high on my compare list..
But it will depend on the cars, range, cost, etc...

I will probably give preference to Tesla and Nissan because they've both been early adopters in the BEV market.

desiv
 
If the Model 3 offers:
  • Free (or one-time fee) lifetime access to superchargers
  • Autonomous highway driving
then I'm going to put in a reservation too. I'll probably keep the Leaf though - my kids are going to start driving soon. :eek:
 
desiv said:
Depends on the car to me..
When I upgrade, I'll be looking at whatever is available.
The new Leaf and the Model 3 will be pretty high on my compare list..
But it will depend on the cars, range, cost, etc...

I will probably give preference to Tesla and Nissan because they've both been early adopters in the BEV market.

desiv

Ditto.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
What percentage of current LEAF drivers are likely to switch to a Model 3, first chance they get? That would be a good poll.
No dealer hassle & supercharger access will be a hard combination to beat. I don't see how any of the upcoming gen 2 BEVs will be able to compete. Maybe a 48 kWh eNV200, just for size.
Tesla is the only company that has figured out how to build a network of charging stations.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/42838-Supercharger-Salt-Lake-City-UT/page4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In contrast most of the CHAdeMO stations are at Nissan dealerships. One nozzle per location and they are often blocked by other cars and the dealerships are closed on Sunday.
 
KJD said:
Tesla is the only company that has figured out how to build a network of charging stations.
That's like saying Blackberry is the only company who have figured out how to do email push ...

When other companies have long range EVs - they will put in the money to make their charging networks widespread and reliable.
 
They'll have to if they want to compete, but they'll be way behind if they wait until they offer their cars, better start soon. They'll still be chained to dealerships though. Except for Apple or whoever else decides to sell BEVs.

If Renault returned to the US market, selling only EVs, could they avoid dealerships?
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
They'll have to if they want to compete, but they'll be way behind if they wait until they offer their cars, better start soon. They'll still be chained to dealerships though. Except for Apple or whoever else decides to sell BEVs.
With the current EV marketshare, being ahead is not a very stable market position.

BTW, doesn't CHAdeMO have a commanding lead in Japan - even with not much of a direct Nissan ownership ?

If Renault returned to the US market, selling only EVs, could they avoid dealerships?
Interesting question. May be they'll sell rebadged Nissan's too.

But, dealers, like all rational parties will rally behind EVs if it helps them.

The new Bellevue Nissan facility was opened with the governor symbolically cutting the gas hose. Leaf is their largest selling model.


CAQis3JUYAEtzzA.jpg
 
evnow said:
The new Bellevue Nissan facility was opened with the governor symbolically cutting the gas hose.
That looks pretty dumb. Hope it's a discarded unit. Those things cost hundreds of dollars...
DNAinaGoodWay said:
If Renault returned to the US market, selling only EVs...
I don't think Nissan is interested in having Renault gliders competing with their Leaf. Unless they make a nice big cut.
 
This is what the CHAdeMO station in SLC looked like for most of 2014.
IMG_0008.jpg

It has only been in the last couple of weeks that they finally replaced the station with a new one. I hope it lasts longer than the first one that was there.
The sad thing about this is that the LEAF really is a pretty decent car to drive. It only has 2 problems,
1) The charge stations are unreliable (along with too few and too far between).
2) The battery pack is way to small.

Until Nissan solves these 2 problems the LEAF will remain a small market item.
 
This is what a real charge station looks like and this is why the Model 3 will be a smashing success story.
image.jpg
 
evnow said:
KJD said:
Tesla is the only company that has figured out how to build a network of charging stations.
That's like saying Blackberry is the only company who have figured out how to do email push ...
Sure, technology-wise, everybody knows *how* to build a network of charging stations. But while Nissan was putting L2 chargers at all of their dealerships, and maybe a single DC fast-charger here and there, Tesla made deals with various shopping malls and hotels to strategically place multiple-outlet charging stations along key routes & intersections to allow cross-country driving. Tesla realized that this would be an important long-term strategy to help sell their electric cars, while the other car companies just dipped their toes into the water.
 
evnow said:
KJD said:
Tesla is the only company that has figured out how to build a network of charging stations.
That's like saying Blackberry is the only company who have figured out how to do email push ...

When other companies have long range EVs - they will put in the money to make their charging networks widespread and reliable.

And how many years will it take those companies to build competitive charching network?
 
Rebel44 said:
And how many years will it take those companies to build competitive charching network?
How long will it take for the "mass market" to "need" the competitive charging network?
No one is saying Tesla's charging infrastructure isn't better than random chargers here and there.

But history is loaded with situations where "better" wasn't what mattered.
Of course, history also has lots of cases where "better" wins.. ;-) So who knows..

desiv
 
I will probably give preference to Tesla and Nissan because they've both been early adopters in the BEV market.

Nissan is an early adopter in the BEV market. Nissan dealers, for the most part, are not.

This is going to be a huge reason as to why the Model 3 would blow out even a lesser priced but equally capable Leaf.

That's like saying Blackberry is the only company who have figured out how to do email push ...

When other companies have long range EVs - they will put in the money to make their charging networks widespread and reliable.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. Nissan is the only company out there with "their own" charging network--none of the others don't even have anything. And it's not really a network, because it's only in dealerships--you'll have a fun time with cross-country trips if you can only stop at dealerships to charge, while Superchargers are out along interstates.

Many companies have explicitly come forward and said they'll never build a charging network. Volkswagon is one of the more prominent companies to state this. Leaf has been quick to give out memberships to EV charging networks, but their dealer network barely has any lvl3 chargers up and running--and really, who wants to go to a dealer to charge their car? Dealers aren't always the most desirable place to wait out a 20-30 minute quick charge. I'd rather go to a shopping mall next to a Supercharger set.

What incentive is there for a third party dealer to keep their lvl3 charger up and running, versus Tesla that has real-time electronic communication when a Supercharger goes down?

The Blackberry example is great for this situation though. Other BEV manufacturers are like Blackberry, who think that their current setup will work fantastic and that it'd be OK to delay a product that people really desire. Like Blackberry, there's a great chance other BEV manufacturers will be forced into a tiny niche market because they'll be too little, too late.

I could go on about the other Tesla advantages that will likely be baked into the Model 3, such as a battery that degrades very little (huge, huge, huge--no amount of battery chemistry will make up for a lack of active temperature management), guaranteed resale values, company-run CPO program, intelligent internet-connected cars and charging network, no "model year" model to be constrained by for improvements, eight year warranty, and so on.

And finally, Tesla is an all-American company whose Model 3 will be over 90% parts sourced from America with the Gigafactory. I think that in itself is worth going for Tesla over Nissan, but that's just me. I only see hope for BEVs in niche format (REx versions, cheap city/commuter cars only) unless they give in and pay Tesla for Supercharger use and buy Tesla batteries.
 
KJD said:
This is what the CHAdeMO station in SLC looked like for most of 2014.


It has only been in the last couple of weeks that they finally replaced the station with a new one. I hope it lasts longer than the first one that was there.
The sad thing about this is that the LEAF really is a pretty decent car to drive. It only has 2 problems,
1) The charge stations are unreliable (along with too few and too far between).
2) The battery pack is way to small.

Until Nissan solves these 2 problems the LEAF will remain a small market item.

Dude, you live in Utah and you expect EV infrastructure? 90+% of the population of that state believes that God is coming back in a couple years to either resurrect everyone or solve every problem, so might as well use up this silly old Earth of ours while they have it. You should move to Dubai if you want some more progressive EV policies. Or to the PNW where it's actually somewhat difficult to drive somewhere that's more than 50 miles from a fast charger.
 
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