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I thought this was a nice analysis of the situation as was discussed in a thread at TMC. Both are clearly answers based on very little information. Info from the quarterly report in Feb is going to be very interesting. Somebody has heard something good as the stock has shot up in the last few days.

pbrulott said:
Understand the concern. I am also puzzled about the dates we are seeing for people finalizing in the 15K. I am P179 and just signed my paperwork last week and was told March/April. In front of me is:

100 Founders and others + 1200 Sig + 12,000 P US + 178 P Can = Total of 13,500 - 3000 already delivered in 2012 that is 10,500 before me.
@ 400 a week and 13 weeks to go (middle of the Marh/April range) = 5200 delivered
That is half of the 10,500
What happened with the remaining 5,300 = delayed, standard suspension, mc red, 40 kWh, no that can't be
Most of the rest would be cancels, could be as high as 4000 out of the 13,500, suspect closer to 2000 (15%) since my math might be wrong
CapitalistOppressor said:
Why not? You just assert that 4,000 cars are cancellations, which means you actually think that fewer than 10% of Model S customers want a 40kWh battery, standard suspension or a red car? It might surprise you, but red tends to be a rather popular color (5th most popular overall).

If I was conservatively estimating demand, I'd guess that 6-8% of customers would want the 40kWh battery
(TMC user poll was 6%), and 15% of the remaining customers would want the standard suspension. According to Forbes 10% of North American cars sold are red (5. Red - Top 10 Most Popular Car Colors - Forbes).

Under those assumptions that would leave us with ~3,200 customers of your remaining 10.5k who want options not yet manufactured. That leaves 2,100 which are potential cancellations, which is ~16% of your 13,500 cars. Tesla has reported a 5-10% cancellation rate, so that's not a massive increase. But we have reports from Zextraterrestrial (and others) that production right now is actually closer to 480 cars per week. During the last conference call Elon stated that production would be HIGHER than 400 cars per week by the end of 2012 in order to start trimming the wait list and meet demand, and we have info which indicates that Tesla has reached that goal.

The extra 80 cars per week delivers ~1000 cars in your 13 weeks, which pushes potential cancellations down to ~1,100 which is ~8%, or right in the range that Tesla has reported. Again, there is no reason to believe that we have an exceptionally high number of cancellations. There might be, but there is no evidence, and it's very much at odds with the real data we have on increasing demand.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13033-Concerned-about-weak-demand?p=259918#post259918" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
WetEV said:
Train said:
I'm not sure if Tesla is going to sell 20,000 cars the U.S. this year. In fact, I'd be surprised if they sell 15,000.

I'll bet you a coffee that Tesla sells more than 15,000 cars this year.

In the U.S.? Hmmmmm...alright, it's a bet!

Cup o' Joe to the winner.
 
mitch672 said:
As I said, no worries about cancellations: http://seekingalpha.com/currents/post/780081" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wait, just months ago, this site was skewered with Tesla forum distain and vitriol because they didn't liked what they heard. Now when it's convenient, they are a reference.

Look, I understand. You guys are spending 100K and you need to justify, rationalize, and affirm your purchase. Goodness knows if I spent that much, I'd be looking for ANY good news to justify dropping that much cash on a four door sedan.

I also know the Tesla fanboy base is out trying to EVangelize over hill and dale. But Leafers were all beer and skittles until the numbers fell flat. Expect Tesla to do the same. For a multitude of reasons.

You got windshields cracking on their own now. Geez...
 
Going to say this once. I you have nothing of value to add to the thread, then it's probably best to say nothing, didn't your momma teach you any manners?

I own an 85KW Model S, if there are any intelligent questions, ask away. I'm not worried about anything concerning Tesla, their sales or survival, cancellation rate, etc, and those issues have nothing to do with the best car I've owned to date. I'm so happy I skipped the Leaf, if I had only skipped the PiP as well. Oh well, live and learn.
 
mitch672 said:
Going to say this once. I you have nothing of value to add to the thread, then it's probably best to say nothing, didn't your momma teach you any manners?
I agree. This thread has turned into something of an anti-Tesla bent. All products have their fanboys and their detractors - be it Tesla, Apple or even the LEAF (when we were all eagerly awaiting it). If you (the generic "you") don't like Tesla, fine. You don't need to be discussing it here and you certainly don't need to be trying to convince those of us who do why we shouldn't. Why not create a "Tesla Model S Haters" thread of your own? Sheesh.



EDIT: typo
 
For any Elon Musk fans, KQED is having a replay of the Tuesday interview starting in about an hour, you can listen via a web browser, they also have an iPhone app as well:
http://www.kqed.org/a/radiospecials/R201301242000" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Here's some Tesla battery "secret sauce":


pic

Here you can see the bare 18650 laptop cells. They are interwoven with an aluminum channel (golden color) that carries coolant to each cell. Looks to me like a good 25% of each cell is in contact with this. (via way of a thermal pad and kapton electrical insulator)


pic

Very large buss bar interconnecting the modules made of thin laminated strips of copper, that way it's still flexible.


pic

This is the top of a module, each cell is connected to it's buss via a tiny single wire, which helps distribute current and acts like a fuse in the event of a cell fault.


pic

Close up of the cell connection detail.

-Phil
 
Ingineer said:
Here's some Tesla battery "secret sauce":
-Phil
Thanks for the great photos. Is the pack designed to be "swap-able"? For example, would Better Place be able to get business from Model S and Rav4EV drivers? I wonder if the pack is designed to be swap-able, how are they going to connect and dis-connect the thermal mechanism.
 
Ingineer said:
Herm said:
Phil, did you sneak a camera in your belt buckle on a Tesla factory tour? :)
I'm not sayin'! :geek:

-Phil

Very impressive Phil, it doesn't look anything like I thought it would. Now I know what's under my car... You thinking of building add on packs, or investigating upgrades down the road? It's obvious you have some friends at the Fremont factory, they guard pictures of the pack internals like the family jewels :)
 
Leaf's numbers didn't just "fall flat". from day one when I first started reading this forum it was full of complaints about almost everything imaginable from the ordering process, to the sound of the motor to the thinness of the paint to the cheapness of the doors, crappy window motors, super thin carpeting, craptastic navigation, poor real world range and eventually dramatic and permanent loss of range due to heat exposure. Surely each of these has taken it's toll on Leaf sales. So far, the average Tesla owner is very wowed by the car, range anxiety is a non-issue and Tesla's Roadster has held up well in hot climates like Phoenix. So far, we really don't see signs of any major deal breakers with the S and just about everyone that has done a test drive and written an article has raved about Tesla's accomplishment. I'm not saying the tide can't turn, I just don't see why you would be so thoroughly pessimistic about the future of the S and assume it's going to follow in the footsteps of the Leaf.

Train said:
...But Leafers were all beer and skittles until the numbers fell flat. Expect Tesla to do the same. For a multitude of reasons.
...
 
Train said:
mkjayakumar said:
Why is it that I think Train is perhaps a troll ?

That's not true...I'm over six foot tall!


While you are a litte short for a D&D troll and quite a bit taller that a trollkin, ... over six feet tall seems just about right for a MNL Troll.





Hedge
 
cwerdna said:
mitch672 said:
Germany, Sweden/Norway, Japan all doing fine, many affluent people. No worries.
I can't speak to Sweden and Norway, but OTOH, Germany and France are the two best off in the Eurozone right now. Japan's suffering from slow growth and has been for a long time.
...
Re: Europe, thanks to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JlcYfkONJc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (which has random non-Nissan related stuff in it), I learned about this:

Europe car sales sink to 17-year low:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9805038/Europe-car-sales-sink-to-17-year-low.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New car registrations in the European Union declined by 8.2pc last year, including at twice that average rate in December, to reach their lowest level in 17 years...
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/auto-registrations.lsj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has more info.
However the European trade data for the year showed big differences between countries.

Car sales rose only in Britain, by 5.3 percent from the level in 2011.

In Germany, a fall in sales on the home market was contained to 2.9 percent but in France sales slumped by 13.9 percent, in Spain by 13.4 percent and in Italy by 19.9 percent.

In terms of brands, sales in western Europe by PSA Peugeot Citroen fell by 12.9 percent, by Renault 18.9 and by Fiat of Italy by 15.8 percent.

Sales by Opel, based in Germany but owned by US group General Motors which has recovered strongly from bankruptcy, fell by 15.6 percent.

However, other German brands did far better. Sales by Audi rose by 3.7 percent, and by BMW they slid by 0.1 percent and by Mercedes-Benz by 0.9 percent.

In terms of sales in Europe by foreign manufacturers, the South Korean group Hyundai-Kia raised sales under the Hyundai name by 9.4 percent and under the Kia brand by 14.6 percent.
 
Video: Tesla Model S Performance Smokes 518 Horsepower Mercedes-Benz E63 Twin Turbo
http://insideevs.com/video-tesla-model-s-performance-smokes-518-horsepower-mercedes-benz-e63-twin-turbo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
<snip>
The DragTimes video shows a 2012 Tesla Model S Performance (416 horsepower and 443 pound-feet of torque from 0 to 5,100 rpm) clobber (0 to 110 miles per hour) a 2012 Mercedes-Benz E63 5.5-liter V8 with twin turbos (518 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque from 1,700 to 5,000 rpm).
We hope the spec-heavy details show why the Model S easily outgunned the Mercedes-Benz, but oddly both manufacturers list a 0-60 mph time of 4.4 seconds. Hmm.
<snip>
 
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