Official Tesla Model S thread

[Zythryn]

...
Also as the Model Ss to date (til recently) have all been the "signatures", performance 85s, air suspension, etc. I'd say $80k is on the low side of the average, so far.
...

Signatures finished being delivered in December, at which time regular production of 85kWh packs started.
60s just started recently. Radiant Red is starting late this month. I do believe only air suspension is being delivered. 80k fits with what I have heard as well for an average. At 'vanilla' 85 runs 77k, a 'vanilla' 60 runs 67k. Fully loaded performance can get up around 95k.

 

[GeekEV]

I think you're quoting the after tax credit price and before th e price adjustments. A fully loaded P85 today runs $112,670.

 

[Zythryn]

I think you're quoting the after tax credit price and before th e price adjustments. A fully loaded P85 today runs $112,670.

No, I wasn't. Although my numbers were off.
I was quoting prices paid this quarter for the cars, from memory. So as to give a rough idea of average prices for the quarter.
A fully specked out P85 with the optional HPWC (which I didn't consider because I forgot about them), is $98,670 if you bought it today. That does include the federal rebate, so 106k.
It also include the $2500 price increase which people were not paying yet this quarter.
So the highest price paid this quarter was around 104k if they bought the HPWC.

 

[leafedbehind]

Indeed 40kWh is an interesting capability level. That should enable a solid 120 miles at highway speeds, covering all but the longest commutes and eliminating daily range anxiety for most. For moderate length road trips that's a couple hours of driving, a point where many might be inclined to take a break anyway so a 200 mile trip looks quite doable with just one stop (unlike the current leaf where it's a project undertaken only by diehards).

But if you really want to be able to go on a trip, you need the 60kWh pack so that you can use the Tesla superchargers (it's an option on the 60s). Otherwise you are waiting for 4+ hours at a J1772 after that two hours of driving.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

But if you really want to be able to go on a trip, you need the 60kWh pack so that you can use the Tesla superchargers (it's an option on the 60s). Otherwise you are waiting for 4+ hours at a J1772 after that two hours of driving.

Yeah, I meant in general, not so much in the context of Model S, that 40kWh with fast charging is sort of a benchmark that enables 99% of the use cases.

 

[qwk]

I think you're quoting the after tax credit price and before th e price adjustments. A fully loaded P85 today runs $112,670.

No, I wasn't. Although my numbers were off.
I was quoting prices paid this quarter for the cars, from memory. So as to give a rough idea of average prices for the quarter.
A fully specked out P85 with the optional HPWC (which I didn't consider because I forgot about them), is $98,670 if you bought it today. That does include the federal rebate, so 106k.
It also include the $2500 price increase which people were not paying yet this quarter.
So the highest price paid this quarter was around 104k if they bought the HPWC.

A base P85 used to be a few hundred less than $94k. A vanilla 85kw car was a few hundred under $80k. The average price of a Model S sold so far has to be closer to $95k. FYI, the standard suspension is now shipping, and has been since the beggining of March.

 

[N952JL]

Rumored to be coast-to-coast charging network.[/quote]Well, then it will not be availability of a CHAdeMO adapter, but that would be nice.[/quote]
Maybe it's a strategic partnership with Nissan to standardize the L3 charging format with a field upgrade and offer a 40kWh thermal managed pack option for the LEAF.[/quote]

In our dreams

 

[Elephanthead]

Most L3 chargers are capable of adding a SAE connector in addition to the CHAdeMO. That is if there is ever a car that can connect to it with a battery big enough to quick charge.

 

[evnow]

Most L3 chargers are capable of adding a SAE connector in addition to the CHAdeMO. That is if there is ever a car that can connect to it with a battery big enough to quick charge.

And there is someone willing to fund the upgrade. Certainly for a long time there won't be a business case that can be made for the upgrades.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Most L3 chargers are capable of adding a SAE connector in addition to the CHAdeMO. That is if there is ever a car that can connect to it with a battery big enough to quick charge.

And there is someone willing to fund the upgrade. Certainly for a long time there won't be a business case that can be made for the upgrades.

I doubt that will stop Blink. as soon as there is federal funding available for the upgrade they will probably start a whole new round of testing, with us being the lab rats and them getting the easy cash...

 

[evnow]

I doubt that will stop Blink. as soon as there is federal funding available for the upgrade they will probably start a whole new round of testing, with us being the lab rats and them getting the easy cash...

I doubt they will get much money. In fact, I doubt there will be any federal funding available for things like upgrade. There is simply not enough votes for a "stimulus II" - in fact such a measure won't even come on the floor of the house unless Dems are in majority. Dems have to win by a large margin in terms of votes to get the majority back in the House - the 2010 round of gerrymandering has completely tilted the scale.

 

[scottf200]

I responded to a comment in another thread but wasn't sure if everyone had seen this. I was not following Tesla closely then. Probably since having the Volt for a year and seeing their success of getting the Model S out did I start to take them seriously and think about a 200+ mile range BEV being workable for me (hence my X deposit).

August 2, 2006
The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)
By Elon Musk, Co-Founder & CEO of Tesla Motors
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

<snip>
Becoming Energy Positive
I should mention that Tesla Motors will be co-marketing sustainable energy products from other companies along with the car. For example, among other choices, we will be offering a modestly sized and priced solar panel from SolarCity, a photovoltaics company (where I am also the principal financier). This system can be installed on your roof in an out of the way location, because of its small size, or set up as a carport and will generate about 50 miles per day of electricity.

If you travel less than 350 miles per week, you will therefore be “energy positive” with respect to your personal transportation. This is a step beyond conserving or even nullifying your use of energy for transport – you will actually be putting more energy back into the system than you consume in transportation! So, in short, the master plan is:

1) Build sports car [Roadster]
2) Use that money to build an affordable car [Model S and X]
3) Use that money to build an even more affordable car [Bluestar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_BlueStar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]
4) While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options [ http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]
Don't tell anyone.

 

[edatoakrun]

MT compares “the most innovative car of the (last) century” to the Tesla S.

Motor Trend has taken it upon itself to pit the lauded 2013 Tesla Model S against the venerable 1956 Citroën DS-19 in the magazine's latest Head 2 Head video. In what realm do these two machines cross tracks? Host Jonny Lieberman makes a strong case for the fact that both cars represent the pinnacle of automotive innovation from their respective eras...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/29/tesla-model-s-pitted-against-citroen-ds-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was fortunate enough to have a DS as a daily driver for ~ 8 years, and it was certainly the not only the most “innovative” but best all-around car I have ever owned, with the possible exception of my LEAF (ask me again in ~6 more years).

The two main omissions in the comparison, IMO:

The DS, while not cheap, was a true mass-market car.

When prices are inflation and income adjusted, the DS was roughly comparable to new cars for sale today in the $30,00 to $40,000 price range, Which is why I could afford to buy (and maintain, but only just barely!) a well-used DS in 1980, while I was still in college.

The larger contrast between the two cars, which this review largely missed, is that the DS was a truly radical design, and the form was allowed to follow the function.

It is very unfortunate, IMO, that Tesla chose to try to make the S look like an ICEV.

Maybe the Tesla marketers who dictated the design were right, that the typical ~$100 k car buyer does want a car that looks so much like competing ICEV luxury cars.

The DS is now highly regarded as an innovative car because it’s designers were willing to defy convention in styling as well as engineering, and, it is very unfortunate, IMO, that Tesla was not willing to do the same with the S.

The DS was not only a design success, but a market success as well, and ~1.5 million were sold.

IMO, the design failure by Tesla, is likely to mean it will never approach those sales volumes, nor will it be likely to be remembered in 50 or 60 years as as the most “innovative” vehicle design, of this (half) century.

 

[MrIanB]

Just saw a silver one on Parmer Ln, Austin Texas.

Ian B

 

[tbleakne]

Despite its impressive aerodynamics, the Model-S efficiency at 55 mph on level road appears to be only about 3.6 mi/kWh, judging from Tesla's graph. My Leaf can get 5.0 mi/kWh at this speed.

I would think the rolling resistance would scale with weight, but it appears to be higher than linear. Ingineer has noted that the Tesla's induction motor is less efficient than the Leaf's, especially at low power.

I see that Tesla recommends 45 lbs cold pressure for the 19in wheels, which is pretty high. Has anyone tried a higher pressure? What is the tire's maximum?

 

[TomT]

Yep, and with the currently announced retirements and many more dems than reps up for reelection this cycle, it is a good bet that the dems will actually loose seats...

There is simply not enough votes for a "stimulus II" - in fact such a measure won't even come on the floor of the house unless Dems are in majority. Dems have to win by a large margin in terms of votes to get the majority back in the House - the 2010 round of gerrymandering has completely tilted the scale.

 

[ebill3]

Yep, and with the currently announced retirements and many more dems than reps up for reelection this cycle, it is a good bet that the dems will actually loose seats...

As long as some insist on dragging politics into the thread ....

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I doubt that will stop Blink. as soon as there is federal funding available for the upgrade they will probably start a whole new round of testing, with us being the lab rats and them getting the easy cash...

I doubt they will get much money. In fact, I doubt there will be any federal funding available for things like upgrade. There is simply not enough votes for a "stimulus II" - in fact such a measure won't even come on the floor of the house unless Dems are in majority. Dems have to win by a large margin in terms of votes to get the majority back in the House - the 2010 round of gerrymandering has completely tilted the scale.

i fully think that more green money will be available but also feel that throwing "good money after bad" will prevail here. I think that Blink needs to show us something before they will get any more money and they have yet to do that.

lately, they seem to have perked up a bit but considering they were so low, its not saying a whole lot

 

[DaveEV]

Indeed 40kWh is an interesting capability level. That should enable a solid 120 miles at highway speeds

But if you really want to be able to go on a trip, you need the 60kWh pack so that you can use the Tesla superchargers (it's an option on the 60s). Otherwise you are waiting for 4+ hours at a J1772 after that two hours of driving.

Well, with only a 40 kWh pack, you can equip the car with the twin-chargers and charge at 20 kW which should refill fast enough for occasional 200mi trips with a suitably long lunch stop.

Despite its impressive aerodynamics, the Model-S efficiency at 55 mph on level road appears to be only about 3.6 mi/kWh, judging from Tesla's graph. My Leaf can get 5.0 mi/kWh at this speed.

Yeah, those big wheels combined with big weight don't really lend itself towards high efficiency. It's also a wide car.

Combined with 3-5 kWh of vampire draw a day, and it's really not all that efficient.

Though interestingly, the EPA rates the 85 kWh car at 370 Wh/mi on the highway (same as the LEAF) and the 60 kWh car at 350 Wh/mi.

 

[Zythryn]

Where the weight really hurts is in city driving. Highway driving doesn't seem too bad, although worse than the other plug ins.
I am really looking forward to their third gen sedan.