Official Tesla Model S thread

[WetEV]

The competition will be between EV's with the required range. To compete Nissan or any other EV player needs to match Tesla's range. People will pay more for the range, and a TMS to keep the batteries cool.

Seems to me that range is costly, and not everyone will pay for it. Time will tell what distribution of range people will decide on. I'd suspect that more "city range" 100 mile or less cars will be sold than 200 mile plus range cars.

TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

 

[Sublime]

TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

I agree solid batteries will be the end of TMS, minus heating, which Nissan already does.

 

[Zythryn]

...
TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

How does the Leaf moderate the temperature during QC?
Is it simply by controlling the rate of charge, or is there more.

We have had temperature management start in cars with TMS under long drives in warm weather here in MN. I also suspect it will kick in when supercharging, however I am not sure yet.
Seems to me TMS is more helpful in hot climates as you mentioned, but I suspect it will lengthen the battery life just about anywhere. Just not as much.

 

[scottf200]

...TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

How does the Leaf moderate the temperature during QC? Is it simply by controlling the rate of charge, or is there more.

We have had temperature management start in cars with TMS under long drives in warm weather here in MN. I also suspect it will kick in when supercharging, however I am not sure yet.
Seems to me TMS is more helpful in hot climates as you mentioned, but I suspect it will lengthen the battery life just about anywhere. Just not as much.

Similar in the Volt. It uses TMS to manage the battery temperature (and charger) to be the most battery friendly (even if you are charging outside in the sun!). Various people using DashDAQ or other methods to see how well the Volt battery is holding up after over 2 years of use. There is no doubt there must be some capacity going down in the Volt. It just may still be modest after 2 years.

 

[DaveEV]

TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

If you saw 6 TB, then in a Volt, TMS would have turned on. I don't know what the threshold is on the Model S, but you can be fairly certain they are always circulating coolant when the car is on. On my LEAF I don't see 6 TB until all 4 sensors are over 76F and some temp sensors will be close to 80F. The Volt turns on TMS to cool the pack to 75F when on and never-mind that they designed the TMS to make sure the cells all remain as close to the same temperature as possible so they age equally. The same 2 temp sensors on my LEAF consistently read anywhere from 1-3F higher than the lowest sensor (unless the car sits for 24 hours without charging or driving in which case they get within 1F) - over the lifetime of the pack this will result in a portion of the pack losing significantly more capacity than the rest.

 

[evnow]

...
TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

Battery capacity loss happens both in cold and hot weathers. Just that the loss is temporary in cold weather.

I don't know if TMS would consume less than the capacity loss due to cold weather, though. If it does, TMS would be useful in cold weather. BTW, the range loss in cold weather is more severe than what some might see in AZ due to capacity loss.

 

[MrIanB]

1 more day till my Tesla S test drive on Sunday.

Ian B

 

[N952JL]

The competition will be between EV's with the required range. To compete Nissan or any other EV player needs to match Tesla's range. People will pay more for the range, and a TMS to keep the batteries cool.

Seems to me that range is costly, and not everyone will pay for it. Time will tell what distribution of range people will decide on. I'd suspect that more "city range" 100 mile or less cars will be sold than 200 mile plus range cars.

TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

I live in Middle GA which is not as bad as Fl, LA, MS, TX, NM, and AZ. This is the second summer for my Leaf having picked it up Dec 2011. Since that time I am at 6 TB from May to Nov. I go down to 5 TB Nov to April. In July and Aug I am at 6 TB in the morning and 7 TB in the afternoon when I leave work. My car is always garaged when not at work.

Range is the biggest issue here in Middle GA. You can't even drive to the airport to catch a flight. QC wouldn't do much to improve as you would be spending as much time at the L3 charging as you do driving. I find it interesting that less than 5% of all reservations for the model s was for the small battery version. The other 95% were for 60kW or the 85kW. If current sales are an indication, Range has spoken as Tesla's sales, I believe are equal to or higher than the Leaf.

 

[WetEV]

The competition will be between EV's with the required range. To compete Nissan or any other EV player needs to match Tesla's range. People will pay more for the range, and a TMS to keep the batteries cool.

Seems to me that range is costly, and not everyone will pay for it. Time will tell what distribution of range people will decide on. I'd suspect that more "city range" 100 mile or less cars will be sold than 200 mile plus range cars.

TMS is necessary in some places like Phoenix, and is useless other places like Seattle, and is only slightly useful in most of the USA. I've seen 6 TB a few times over the past year, I'd expect that a TMS would not have turned on once. It adds cost and complexity, and would probably not improve my battery lifetime at all.

I live in Middle GA which is not as bad as Fl, LA, MS, TX, NM, and AZ. This is the second summer for my Leaf having picked it up Dec 2011. Since that time I am at 6 TB from May to Nov. I go down to 5 TB Nov to April. In July and Aug I am at 6 TB in the morning and 7 TB in the afternoon when I leave work. My car is always garaged when not at work.

Range is the biggest issue here in Middle GA. You can't even drive to the airport to catch a flight. QC wouldn't do much to improve as you would be spending as much time at the L3 charging as you do driving. I find it interesting that less than 5% of all reservations for the model s was for the small battery version. The other 95% were for 60kW or the 85kW. If current sales are an indication, Range has spoken as Tesla's sales, I believe are equal to or higher than the Leaf.

Both Tesla and Leaf sales are currently more capacity constrained than demand constrained, and even more by the fact that they are new. You might be right, but I don't see that the answer is clear yet.

TMS. I've learned that the threshold for 6TB is probably above the threshold for TMS cooling, so my statement above was just wrong. However, the conclusion is the same. Perhaps the TMS might have turned on not only for the few time's I've seen 6TB, but perhaps a lot more. Perhaps, and this is pessimistic, my battery temperature was 2C warmer than it might have been with a TMS for two months of the year. This would reduce battery lifetime by less than a month every year, which might reduce the life of the battery from 14 years and 160,000 miles to 13 years and 150,000 miles.

Some place between Seattle and Phoenix a TMS will be roughly worth what it costs. I'd probably buy TMS in Atlanta, if available.

I suspect that in 13 years that I might be able to replace the battery pack with one having more range and less temperature sensitivity for a very affordable price.

 

[surfingslovak]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAOAJCaRm-g[/youtube]

 

[KJD]

Excellent link to the YouTube clip. The NYT should hire this guy.

 

[surfingslovak]

Excellent link to the YouTube clip. The NYT should hire this guy.

Yes, he obviously does not believe in fake drama ;-)

 

[MrIanB]

Back from the test drive. I love my Leaf and Volt but this car takes it to a new level. The constant power pushing me to the back of my seat all the way to 80mph was incredible. Fit and finish we're excellent too. A couple of cons were the visor not extending and no private enclosed console which Tesla is working on it. Now need to get my finances in order for a 60kw model S.

Ian B

 

[evnow]

Some interesting things about my Model S reservation.

I reserved the day they announced that 40kWh people would actually get a 60kWh model with software capped to 40 kWh. But didn't finalize the deal - since I'd still not get supercharging.

I was playing around with the design studio and saved it. And soon I got an email from Tesla saying my "order" had been sent to factory ! Rather poor web design. Anyway, after an e-mail, the "order" was removed and my design studio opened again. Still, just a couple of weeks back I got an email telling me to expect my Model S soon ! This time, I called and asked them to change my reservation to an X. Not yet done after 2 weeks.

 

[dhanson865]

Excellent link to the YouTube clip. The NYT should hire this guy.

Yes, he obviously does not believe in fake drama ;-)

His real drama was what a 40 minute wait to plug into the charger? Not ideal but not stranded on the side of the road either.

I could have done without the fake electricity sounds and it would have been nice to see him actually plugging in the charge cord / showing you how to start a charge. It also would have helped if he would have mentioned how the super charger map isn't complete or accurate as he showed it.

The map in his video looked like an old map as it doesn't match any phase in http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; though it was similar to the Winter 2013 stage.

Oh and I really liked being able to see all the settings without the camera jerking around, cutting away, zooming, panning. Just actually letting me see settings. I've seen other videos that mention the settings but it goes by so quick it is hard to tell what the options are. It was hard to read here on my screen but at least he covered most/all the options so I had a good idea what they were.

 

[thankyouOB]

Excellent link to the YouTube clip. The NYT should hire this guy.

Yes, he obviously does not believe in fake drama ;-)

i liked the deflated music when he teslaed into barstow and ....


the 3 tesla chargers were full of other teslas.

 

[MrIanB]

Can anyone post their insurance rate on the Tesla whether 60 or 80 kw models. Can you list carrier, deductible and yearly/6 month premium please. Trying to run numbers after my test drive today.

Thanks in advance,

Ian B

 

[cwerdna]

Can anyone post their insurance rate on the Tesla whether 60 or 80 kw models. Can you list carrier, deductible and yearly/6 month premium please. Trying to run numbers after my test drive today.

The numbers you get will not be useful. You should ask your carrier instead. There is a HUGE variance in rates just by geographic area alone (e.g. So Cal insurance is WAY more than Seattle area insurance). Even your credit rating can affect your rates.

See http://my350z.com/forum/2910760-post29.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as to why.

 

[chris1howell]

Can anyone post their insurance rate on the Tesla whether 60 or 80 kw models. Can you list carrier, deductible and yearly/6 month premium please. Trying to run numbers after my test drive today.

Thanks in advance,

Ian B

I have a 85kw non-performance, I was shocked that the rate was almost the same as the LEAF...

 

[GeekEV]

Here's my coverage through USAA for an S60 optioned out to about $85k.

2013 TESLA MODEL S 4D
Premium $ 490.84 per 6 months (for comparison, my LEAF runs $408.08 with the same coverages, but 5k miles instead of 15k)

Deductibles
Comprehensive 250 / Collision 1,000
Bodily Injury Liability: 100,000/300,000 = $28.42
Property Damage Liability: 100,000 = $23.91
Uninsured Motorists Bodily Injury: $100,000/300,000 = $11.74
Medical Payments: Coverage Declined
Wage Earner Disability Benefits: Coverage Declined
Essential Services Disability Benefits: Coverage Declined
Death Benefit: Coverage Declined
Comprehensive deductible: 250 = $12.87
Collision deductible: 1,000 = $34.78
Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: 3,500 per accident
Uninsured Waiver of Collision Deductible:$2.44
Rental coverage: Coverage declined
Towing & Labor: Coverage declined