Official Tesla Model S thread

[mwalsh]

Model S review from fellow LEAF owner and Right Wing Fish Wrap reporter, Sue Carpenter:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/miles-496475-leaf-tesla.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

Yep. I've said it here publicly a few times, if only the Leaf had say 150 miles of range by the EPA, I'd have a Leaf by now ...

Thats like saying, if only Model S cost $40k instead of $80k, you would have bought one by now

A $50k Leaf wouldn't sell many - as you can see from RAV4 EV sales.

I'm sure others have noticed that, because the LEAF beat several much more expensive BEVs to the market, those who aspired to be "early adopters" but who actually wanted to spend two or three times as much for a larger, longer range, or more luxurious BEV, "settled" for the much-less-expensive LEAF.

And then some of these same LEAF buyers, became LEAF critics, essentially due to the fact that the LEAF was not the BEV that they wanted in the first place...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

a 40 or 50 kW Leaf would make life so much better in terms of reducing dependence on public charging and all the issues that come with it.

Yep. I've said it here publicly a few times, if only the Leaf had say 150 miles of range by the EPA, I'd have a Leaf by now and would have a lot fewer reservations about buying it (instead of leasing), taking into account battery degradation, highway driving and heater use.

As it stands, because I live so far from everything, owning or leasing a Leaf limits my choices of future jobs (I'm not working right now) or relegates it to be a car that useful only on the weekends if the future job is too far and has no charging.

ya problem with that is the current platform cannot take a battery pack that large so we have to wait for battery advancement to reduce the weight. imm, the weight is already too much for the tires they use which is the reason so many people are having tires replaced.

another thing is that we are looking at two different things. Andrew; in your situation it would be foolish to get a car that does not handle 99% of your needs and the LEAF does not. as a single guy, two cars is simply too much money to maintain.

up until about 10 years ago, i always had at least 2 cars (also had 3 cars at various times totaling probably 10 years altogether) but that option has become too expensive to justify anymore. i actually got rid of the spare vehicle (F-150) about 3 years ago but that was after it was put on VERY light duty back in 2004 when I got my first Prius. in the ensuing 6 years, the truck was shared among 3 households (we lived one place where we could not park it at home) and probably used about 20 times in that 6 year span.

so for you, I would look at the C Max, Volt or something. A car that will get you the range you need for under $40,000 is coming but wont be here for a while.

Now, Nissan is coming out with bigger battery packs but wont be that big and guessing its because they have a very ambitious price point they want to hit to insure greater acceptance and that is where i think the EV sweet spot will be. it still wont be a "single car" household option but will give it the range that most people need without relying on public charging.

 

[GRA]

We made our first long distance trip in our 85kw Model S this weekend. Over the holiday weekend we put 1050 miles on the car and traveled from the Los Angeles area to the Grand Canyon and back. From Los Angeles we headed to the Barstow Supercharger, we had a quick lunch. The car was waiting for us by the time we made it back.

We then drove 216 miles to Kingman AZ. We stayed overnight at the Kingman KOA in a cabin and charged on a 50A RV circuit. The next morning we headed to Williams AZ via Route 66 had lunch checked out the local area, had dinner and relaxed a bit. We stayed in another Cabin at the Williams KOA an charged on a 50A circuit. At the KOA we meet another Tesla S owner going from Vegas to Pheonix. And apperantly there was a third scheduled to charge and stay overnight in the cabin next to us but he was a no-show.

The next day we went to the Grand Canyon, had lunch took a 15 Mile detour to visit the "deer farm" and headed back to Kingman. We put 226 miles (mostly highway) on the car and had about 20 remaining...

The last day was Kingman AZ to Barstow then home...

We had an Awesome time and the car performed great, it just took 30 minutes of planning to line up lodging/charging...

Total cost for fuel $14.00 ($0.013 per mile)
Total cost for lodging $90 (3 nights)

Very nice report. Allowing for battery degradation and less than ideal conditions, would you want Tesla to put a Supercharger in say, Needles, ca. 143 miles from Barstow? Kingman looks to be too far once the car ages or conditions aren't ideal. From Needles, Williams is about 183 miles via I-40, which is probably doable, so you could get there in one day instead of two, or even go direct from there to Grand Canyon Village.

 

[chris1howell]

A supercharger in Needles would be perfect. Kingman is a long run at highway speeds, speed limit is 75 and there is a lot of hills and an overall 1000+ foot elevation change. It was pretty windy too.

 

[cwerdna]

Yep. I've said it here publicly a few times, if only the Leaf had say 150 miles of range by the EPA, I'd have a Leaf by now and would have a lot fewer reservations about buying it (instead of leasing), taking into account battery degradation, highway driving and heater use.

As it stands, because I live so far from everything, owning or leasing a Leaf limits my choices of future jobs (I'm not working right now) or relegates it to be a car that useful only on the weekends if the future job is too far and has no charging.

...
another thing is that we are looking at two different things. Andrew; in your situation it would be foolish to get a car that does not handle 99% of your needs and the LEAF does not. as a single guy, two cars is simply too much money to maintain.
...
so for you, I would look at the C Max, Volt or something. A car that will get you the range you need for under $40,000 is coming but wont be here for a while.

I'm ok w/keeping my Prius and getting an EV. I had two cars for a long time (02 Maxima and 04 Z, then 06 Prius and 04 Z). It wasn't until mid-2011 that I reluctantly sold the Z instead of paying $1000 to ship it back since I knew it needed some work soon (new front tires, new rear brakes) and there'd be costs of insurance, registration, shipping, and further depreciation. I'd planned to replace it w/a Leaf anyway.

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together. I've thought about a Volt, but am reluctant to leave Toyota and go to GM. Yeah yeah, reliability record for Volt has been surprisingly good but the low CS mileage, "required" premium fuel and my parents having had not good reliability experiences w/3 GM products means we don't buy GM anymore.

Yeah, I've been able to see the business case of a Volt, even though I'm no GM fan.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If you are keeping your Prius then an EV is the way to go. I personally think that the area of largest improvement is the extended range plug ins. Originally the Volt was suppossd o run on electric only with a small motor us Ed to recharge the batteries. I thunk that is the way to go but just need to perfect the small high performance motor. The waste heat could be used to wafm the cabin. Itis justthat 40 mpg is just not cutting it

 

[mwalsh]

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak? Wifey and I both had Ford Focuses prior to me getting the LEAF and they've both been bulletproof. Her 2003 is at 66k and my 2005 was at 115k when I took delivery of the LEAF and turned it over to her grandson. Now he did destroy the clutch and chip a syncro in the transmission. But I'm still claiming it was his inexperience rather than anything wrong with the car, and it's otherwise served him well for the last two years too.

 

[Phoenix]

Looking for LEAF owners in the Berkeley/Oakland area interested in sharing the use of a Tesla S. You can also be a non-EV owner interested in driving the S, but not needing it all the time. PM me off-list to discuss.

 

[evnow]

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak?

Brand perception is difficult to change.

Talked to a colleague recently about Energi. He liked the idea of buying it - but wanted to know which Japanese manufacturer makes a similar vehicle.

 

[TomT]

Don't know if it can be projected to C-Max but Ford's reliability scores of late have been pretty dismal. The new Escape, for example, has been plagued with legions of problems and fit and finish issues... I, too, would be inclined to wait at least a year before taking the plunge...

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak? Wifey and I both had Ford Focuses prior to me getting the LEAF and they've both been bulletproof. Her 2003 is at 66k and my 2005 was at 115k when I took delivery of the LEAF and turned it over to her grandson. Now he did destroy the clutch and chip a syncro in the transmission. But I'm still claiming it was his inexperience rather than anything wrong with the car, and it's otherwise served him well for the last two years too.

 

[TomT]

Compared to some foreign brands such as Honda and Toyota, I'd have to say that she is right...

Based on past experience, for example, my wife will never, ever even set foot in any Chrysler vehicle, considering them to be absolute crap (which they, in fact, were for quite a long time)...

Brand perception is difficult to change. My wife still thinks domestics are unreliable.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak? Wifey and I both had Ford Focuses prior to me getting the LEAF and they've both been bulletproof. Her 2003 is at 66k and my 2005 was at 115k when I took delivery of the LEAF and turned it over to her grandson. Now he did destroy the clutch and chip a syncro in the transmission. But I'm still claiming it was his inexperience rather than anything wrong with the car, and it's otherwise served him well for the last two years too.

Ford has had some hiccups on various products but most of the passenger cars have been great (with exception of select shift) its the random truck options that have the hiccups but even those were mostly minor and Ford bent over backwards in most cases to resolve customer issues.

 

[GRA]

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak? Wifey and I both had Ford Focuses prior to me getting the LEAF and they've both been bulletproof. Her 2003 is at 66k and my 2005 was at 115k when I took delivery of the LEAF and turned it over to her grandson. Now he did destroy the clutch and chip a syncro in the transmission. But I'm still claiming it was his inexperience rather than anything wrong with the car, and it's otherwise served him well for the last two years too.

Ford has had some hiccups on various products but most of the passenger cars have been great (with exception of select shift) its the random truck options that have the hiccups but even those were mostly minor and Ford bent over backwards in most cases to resolve customer issues.

IIRR, most of the reliability issues CR has recorded wth Ford recently have been due to MyFordTouch/Sync rather than mechanical issues. Course, I don't think you can get an FFE or Energi without those two, but for many people that's not essential equipment.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

IIRR, most of the reliability issues CR has recorded wth Ford recently have been due to MyFordTouch/Sync rather than mechanical issues. Course, I don't think you can get an FFE or Eenergi without those two, but for many people that's not essential equipment.

i dont judge on "got it right the first time" especially now that software is a major part of the car. its the response on how its fixed, etc that is important. if there is a software company out there that has a rep of getting it right the first time, well all power to them. for the rest of us, I look forward to updates

 

[jomo25]

A supercharger in Needles would be perfect. Kingman is a long run at highway speeds, speed limit is 75 and there is a lot of hills and an overall 1000+ foot elevation change. It was pretty windy too.

A Supercharger would be great there but, there are so many RV Parks with 50A hookups in this part of the country that its not absolutely necessary. Check the AllWays RV camp locator (site or apps) and you'll see even a 60kWh Model S would be able to make it without too much trouble. Yes, you have to stop but its certainly possible.

 

[cwerdna]

I doubt I'd get a C-Max until reliability results come out and Ford gets its reliability act back together.

Of what do you speak? Wifey and I both had Ford Focuses prior to me getting the LEAF and they've both been bulletproof. Her 2003 is at 66k and my 2005 was at 115k when I took delivery of the LEAF and turned it over to her grandson. Now he did destroy the clutch and chip a syncro in the transmission. But I'm still claiming it was his inexperience rather than anything wrong with the car, and it's otherwise served him well for the last two years too.

See http://pressroom.consumerreports.org/pressroom/2012/10/consumer-reports-auto-reliability-survey-ford-continues-fall-while-seven-japanese-brands-top-list.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. There are more details in some recent issues of CR.

FWIW, looking at CR, the 03 and 05 Ford Focus currently have average and better than average reliability. But, the '12 has much worse than avg.

For their new car prediction for the '12 Focus hatchback "Based on the latest survey, we expect reliability of new models will be 169% below average". The problem spots look like "transmission minor" and audio system both w/a HORRIBLE score (likely the MyFord Touch issues) and squeaks and rattles.

For the '12 Focus sedan "Based on the latest survey, we expect reliability of new models will be 62% below average". Prob spots are similar.

In comparison, if you look at a Prius, for example, every single model year has a much better than avg reliability. Oh yeah, and if you look at the CR link, the Prius c (which they didn't like and don't recommend) got the highest reliability rating overall, despite it being in its 1st model year of a brand new car.

BTW, more useful info at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011/10/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/index.htm?loginMethod=auto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, might be good to read "Your survey results do not match with my experience. Is your survey wrong?" and a few questions around it.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Hmm. Maybe I should change my user name to GaslessInPuyallup, because I am truly gasless now. Even those model airplanes in the rack are conversions from glow fuel to electric.

ha! us too, it's a great feeling for sure. unfortunately we can't practically fit two cars in the garage at the same time, there's just too much stuff in storage racks so the cars have to be swapped out to charge, which just really isn't a big deal. I hate to admit it though, we've got more than 1,500 miles on the S in just two weeks. We've had the latest Leaf for almost a month and only 500 miles on it. the S is just a "pinch me, am I awake" dream car...

 

[GeekEV]

We too will be completely gasless once our S arrives... Only about two weeks or so to go!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

congrats! its funny how people respond sometimes. I've gotten "wow, no more safety blanket for you?" I remind these folks that when the electric grid goes down, so do the gas pumps, then I get the, "oh, I guess that's true". also, combining going gasless with going solar puts a spring in my step. I feel on some deep level like I've finally outsmarted the oil barren crony capitalists!

We too will be completely gasless once our S arrives... Only about two weeks or so to go!