Ok to take my leaf home with NO Charger yet?

[wwhitney]

I have a used 3 prong 30 amp dryer connection on the otherside of my garage wall is it possible to share that circuit with a L6-20R? Would like to install a Levitron 160 and since its a rental, I hate to run a line from the box all the way across the house. Of course I would make sure not to run both the EVSE and the Dry at the same time. Also if it is possible would it be legal in most places?

Certainly, it is possible, but the simplest way to do it would not be compliant with the National Electrical Code. That is because a L6-20R must be protected at 20 amps or less, while your dryer plug should be on a 30 amp breaker.

So your NEC-compliant options are (1) to put in a L6-30R and use a L6-30P to L6-20R pigtail for your EVSE (2) put in a small subpanel or breaker enclosure for a 20 amp breaker for the L6-20R or (3) use a cover mounted switch/15 amp fuse combo with a L6-20R, but then you are limited to 12 amps for the EVSE.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Volusiano]

I have a used 3 prong 30 amp dryer connection on the otherside of my garage wall is it possible to share that circuit with a L6-20R? Would like to install a Levitron 160 and since its a rental, I hate to run a line from the box all the way across the house. Of course I would make sure not to run both the EVSE and the Dry at the same time. Also if it is possible would it be legal in most places?

I don't see anything illegal with shared circuits. If you forget and run both appliances at the same time, you'll just end up popping the breaker.

Could he have a problem with the dryer using the green wire as a neutral and the EVSE trying to use it as a ground? The dryer may have control circuits that run at 120v all the time. We get away with that when plugging into an unused dryer circuit, but in this case I'd think you'd need a dedicated ground wire going back to the panel.

Good point. If the wire to the dryer outlet doesn't have a ground wire already, it may be tough to run a dedicated ground back to the panel. I'd vote for ditching the Levitron and using the Rev2 mod EVSE for L2 charging instead. This way, you can just extend the 30A circuit to another 10-30 outlet where you want and use a L6-20 to 10-30 adapter.

 

[davewill]

Could he have a problem with the dryer using the green wire as a neutral and the EVSE trying to use it as a ground? The dryer may have control circuits that run at 120v all the time. We get away with that when plugging into an unused dryer circuit, but in this case I'd think you'd need a dedicated ground wire going back to the panel.

Good point. If the wire to the dryer outlet doesn't have a ground wire already, it may be tough to run a dedicated ground back to the panel. I'd vote for ditching the Levitron and using the Rev2 mod EVSE for L2 charging instead. This way, you can just extend the 30A circuit to another 10-30 outlet where you want and use a L6-20 to 10-30 adapter.

That doesn't change anything but the outlet...the EVSE would still be using the green wire as ground and the dryer as a neutral.

 

[wwhitney]

So your NEC-compliant options are (1) to put in a L6-30R and use a L6-30P to L6-20R pigtail for your EVSE (2) put in a small subpanel or breaker enclosure for a 20 amp breaker for the L6-20R or (3) use a cover mounted switch/15 amp fuse combo with a L6-20R, but then you are limited to 12 amps for the EVSE.

Correction, the above options only work if your dryer feed is grounded (4-wires). As others have commented, since your existing dryer outlet is ungrounded, the only NEC compliant solution would be to put in another ungrounded 240V outlet, i.e. a 10-30R. Then your 10-30P to L6-20R adapter can repurpose the neutral for a ground for the EVSE, since the EVSE doesn't require a neutral.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[davewill]

Correction, the above options only work if your dryer feed is grounded (4-wires). As others have commented, since your existing dryer outlet is ungrounded, the only NEC compliant solution would be to put in another ungrounded 240V outlet, i.e. a 10-30R. Then your 10-30P to L6-20R adapter can repurpose the neutral for a ground for the EVSE, since the EVSE doesn't require a neutral.

Cheers, Wayne

If he runs a new circuit, why wouldn't he just put in the L6-30R?

 

[GerryAZ]

Correction, the above options only work if your dryer feed is grounded (4-wires). As others have commented, since your existing dryer outlet is ungrounded, the only NEC compliant solution would be to put in another ungrounded 240V outlet, i.e. a 10-30R. Then your 10-30P to L6-20R adapter can repurpose the neutral for a ground for the EVSE, since the EVSE doesn't require a neutral.

Cheers, Wayne

If he runs a new circuit, why wouldn't he just put in the L6-30R?

L6-30R requires L1 (black), L2 (red), and Ground (green)
10-30R requires L1 (black), L2 (red), and Neutral (white)

 

[Volusiano]

Could he have a problem with the dryer using the green wire as a neutral and the EVSE trying to use it as a ground? The dryer may have control circuits that run at 120v all the time. We get away with that when plugging into an unused dryer circuit, but in this case I'd think you'd need a dedicated ground wire going back to the panel.

Good point. If the wire to the dryer outlet doesn't have a ground wire already, it may be tough to run a dedicated ground back to the panel. I'd vote for ditching the Levitron and using the Rev2 mod EVSE for L2 charging instead. This way, you can just extend the 30A circuit to another 10-30 outlet where you want and use a L6-20 to 10-30 adapter.

That doesn't change anything but the outlet...the EVSE would still be using the green wire as ground and the dryer as a neutral.

In the scenario I was thinking of, you'd unplug the dryer before you use the EVSE and vice versa so that their use would be mutually exclusive. But I forgot that the OP's intention on doing this is so that both of them can be permanently plugged in at the same time via 2 outlets. So that won't work unless a switch is put in place to toggle and energize only one outlet or the other but never both.

 

[Volusiano]

Correction, the above options only work if your dryer feed is grounded (4-wires). As others have commented, since your existing dryer outlet is ungrounded, the only NEC compliant solution would be to put in another ungrounded 240V outlet, i.e. a 10-30R. Then your 10-30P to L6-20R adapter can repurpose the neutral for a ground for the EVSE, since the EVSE doesn't require a neutral.

Cheers, Wayne

If he runs a new circuit, why wouldn't he just put in the L6-30R?

I agree with this. If he runs a new circuit, might as well do it properly and run one with a ground wire and the right wire gauge and breaker and put in a 6-50R even. The whole point he was trying to do is to see if he could avoid running another circuit and just tap onto his 10-30R already there.

 

[marccbr]

Thanks for all your comments this forum is a wealth of knowledge. So do you guys think it would be legal to install an extra 10-30R on the same circuit? Then I could just get a Rev2 mod EVSE as one of the contributers stated earlier. So do you guys thing a switch would be required in this case? Last question, would there be a problem with the circuit amp being 30 amp and the EVSE being 20 amps? As you could probably tell I am not in any way an electrician, my day job is software engineering. Thanks for your help.

 

[planet4ever]

Last question, would there be a problem with the circuit amp being 30 amp and the EVSE being 20 amps?

Let's say you have a table lamp with a 23W CFL in it. That's about 0.2 amps. Can you imagine that there would be any problem in plugging that into a 15 amp or even 20 amp circuit?

Ray

 

[marccbr]

Last question, would there be a problem with the circuit amp being 30 amp and the EVSE being 20 amps?

Let's say you have a table lamp with a 23W CFL in it. That's about 0.2 amps. Can you imagine that there would be any problem in plugging that into a 15 amp or even 20 amp circuit?

Ray

True, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[garygid]

In My Opinion:

1. Just using the Mod-L1 (or Rev2) EVSE is "not code", and no combination of breakers, wires, etc. is going to fix that.

2. Just making a L6-20R to 10-30P adapter and using the existing 10-30R receptacle is probably the most simple solution, BUT it requires plugging and unplugging on a "hot" receptacle (safety) that was not really made for frequent use (wear issues?).

3. The OP wanted to avoid installing another breaker and circuit.

4. IF installing another plug on the same circuit, an L6-30R MIGHT be marginally "more nearly legal" than a L6-20R, but probably neither is "strictly" legal, even with a proper Ground.

4. Basically, the same issues are involved if using a Leviton 16-amp EVSE on any type plug.

 

[davewill]

Thanks for all your comments this forum is a wealth of knowledge. So do you guys think it would be legal to install an extra 10-30R on the same circuit...

No. You cannot plug ANY EVSE into the same three wire circuit as your dryer is plugged into. It's not just legality. The dryer uses hot-hot-neutral, the EVSE uses hot-hot-ground. The only reason you can get away with plugging an EVSE into a 10-30r is because it is a dedicated circuit, and using the neutral as a ground doesn't matter. Wiring a second outlet breaks that assumption. Run a new circuit.

 

[wwhitney]

Thanks for all your comments this forum is a wealth of knowledge. So do you guys think it would be legal to install an extra 10-30R on the same circuit?

Yes. Note that you can not compliantly use NM 10/2 to extend your dryer circuit. The dryer circuit is an ungrounded 120V/240V circuit, and the neutral must be insulated. Except that NEC 250.140 does allow the use of SEU cable in this situation.

BTW, depending on the age of construction of your dwelling unit, it is possible that the dryer circuit is a proper 4 wire circuit, but that whoever installed the dryer used a 3 wire receptacle for compatibility with a dryer that had a 3 wire cord on it. [The proper thing to do is this situation is to use the 4-wire receptacle and change the cord on the dryer.] So you may want to deenergize your dryer receptacle and investigate.

So do you guys thing a switch would be required in this case?

It is arguable that a switch is required to be NEC compliant, in that otherwise the total connected load exceeds the branch circuit rating. A 30 amp double pole switch is under $20, so it would be a good idea.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[garygid]

No, properly wiring a second socket can usually include using the Ground that is at (should be at) the existing wall box for the Dryer receptacle.

But, since the Ground and Neutral are often (can be) tied together at the dryer itself, the 2nd socket does not really change much in practice, as long as the wires remain properly connected.

Yes, properly updating the dryer receptacle and cord from 10-30 (no Ground pin) to 14-30 (with Ground pin) is best.

 

[tps]

1. Just using the Mod-L1 (or Rev2) EVSE is "not code", and no combination of breakers, wires, etc. is going to fix that.

Why do you believe that? The only possibility I can think of is that the modified EVSE is not usually securely fastened to the wall, thus if the EV rolls away there's no assurance that the EV cable will break first, de-energizing the EVSE because of loss of pilot. However, the Nissan/Panasonic unit could be fastened reasonably securely using the 4 holes next to the cables. If this were done, and it was plugged directly into a properly installed L6-20R, why would it not meet code?

 

[Volusiano]

1. Just using the Mod-L1 (or Rev2) EVSE is "not code", and no combination of breakers, wires, etc. is going to fix that.

Why do you believe that? The only possibility I can think of is that the modified EVSE is not usually securely fastened to the wall, thus if the EV rolls away there's no assurance that the EV cable will break first, de-energizing the EVSE because of loss of pilot. However, the Nissan/Panasonic unit could be fastened reasonably securely using the 4 holes next to the cables. If this were done, and it was plugged directly into a properly installed L6-20R, why would it not meet code?

I can only guess what Garygid means is that using the Rev1 or Rev2 EVSE with its ground wire connected to the neutral wire of the 10-30 (which is technically not ground) is "not code", because in this case it's not ground-to-ground, but it's ground-to-neutral, which is operational but not necessarily code.

But I think what the OP means is whether the rewiring (NOT counting plugging any device to it) would be up to code or not. Meaning if you have an inspector over and they look at your wiring NOT connected to anything, are they going to approve it or not?

Also, technically speaking, the 10-30 is up to OLD code, but new code will require the 14-30 anyway. So extending a 10-30 circuit to add another 10-30 outlet may meet the old code, but if any new addition must meet this new code, then this may not qualify anyway.

 

[TRONZ]

Wait a minute.... we were supposed to get a charger before bringing our car home?!?


6mos / 6000 miles on L1

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Wait a minute.... we were supposed to get a charger before bringing our car home?!?


6mos / 6000 miles on L1

+2!! but will say i now have 1300+ miles on "modified L1" which works like a charm even at just 12 amps. i now charge up from the long commute in 5-6 hours.

 

[smkettner]

3200 miles with unmodified L1, no worries.