opinions needed on charging options for a small apartment

[johnrhansen]

Looking for opinions here. I'm building two identical six unit apartment buildings with 3 parking places each (near bus line). I'm planning to put in one 30 amp EVSE between 2 of the spots. (free power from house panel) What else should I do? 2 spots are adjacent, and one is off by itself. I was thinking a 14-50 with a disconnect switch might be nice, and maybe a dedicated 5-15 at each spot too. I get one built green point for each plug I install up to 5. I have plenty of power capacity. Putting in a 400 amp service for future solar (more built green points) That's as big as I can go without needing engineering

 

[smkettner]

Will you have access to add wire later? Do you really intend to heavily market to the plug-in crowd?
Is this a Tesla or Versa neighborhood?

I would be inclined to pull 20a circuits to each paired spot and install Clipper Creek LCS-20.
Also put 120v for convenience. Skip the extra spot.

Don't forget a plug for the manager.... HCS-40

I would tend to pull wire from the tenant panel for the garages rather than from the house panel.
Give them 120v if they have a private yard area.
Use LED lighting in the common areas.

And yes I own a few rentals.

 

[JeremyW]

I wouldn't bother with anything 120V wise. It's just too dang slow. I would go with 40A circuits at each spot.

 

[davewill]

Some folks will say to just put in 14-50 outlets, but I'd stick with putting in J1772 EVSEs. They're safer and easier to use. People are less likely to abuse them for other purposes (like living in a motorhome parked in the spot). Put in the highest amerage units you are willing to pay for. Even if you choose 20a EVSEs (I'd personally go at least 30a), pull wire for 50a circuits so they can be upgraded, either by you or a tenant. For this kind of semi-commercial use, I'd only buy Clipper Creek gear. Nothing else is built as well.

 

[johnrhansen]

I already own an aerovironment one, and a bosch power max. I was thinking of just using them until they break. It's pretty much residential. Just 3 spots each. Probably will only have one tenant with an electric car. Or do you think it will end up being a lot more? I could always run an extra large conduit from the house panel to the first charging spot so I can add a second evse later.

 

[Slow1]

You say you are close to a bus stop? Are you going to restrict use to tenants somehow or will they be public? The better the plugs the more likely they will attract attention of non-tenants I would imagine...

IF this is for tenants, then I'd think of the use case being much like home - good L2 but doesn't have to be the best (most use will be overnight) and unless you have some Tesla driver who maxes out range each day, overnight will fill just about anyone. IF this is for others, then go higher as it is of more value to get as much juice as possible and it may reduce time that spots are occupied.

 

[adric22]

I wouldn't bother with anything 120V wise. It's just too dang slow. I would go with 40A circuits at each spot.

Depends on what kind of car you are charging. If it is a C-Max Energi, for example, I'm sure 120V would be fine. So having the extra plugs is not that expensive and it gives people options if the main J1772 is in use or broken.

 

[2k1Toaster]

Always nice to have a 120v plug there. Maybe a work light, holiday decorations, engine block heater for non-EV-ers?

Then I would agree with getting standard J1772 L2 chargers installed on the largest copper you can reasonably put in. Then when super chargers of doom are commonplace 20 years from now, you can upgrade without having to run new wire.

 

[smkettner]

I already own an aerovironment one, and a bosch power max. I was thinking of just using them until they break. It's pretty much residential. Just 3 spots each. Probably will only have one tenant with an electric car. Or do you think it will end up being a lot more? I could always run an extra large conduit from the house panel to the first charging spot so I can add a second evse later.

Sounded more gunge-ho in the first post. I would not put 50a out for each apartment. 20 amp max. Just stub them off in a J-box. Put the two you have in a common/guest space.

 

[johnrhansen]

I'm building 2 buildings. Both are private parking lots well if you can call them that there's only room for 3 cars each. So it sounds like I'll run a large conduit from the house panel to a j box. One set of #8's to the J1772 EVSE. one per building. But provisions to add more if needed. If I get two tenants with electric cars I'll buy another one. All 3 spots will also have a dedicated 5-15 GFCI. Could use that plug for other purposes too. How does that sound?

 

[johnrhansen]

By the way, thanks for all your opinions!

 

[smkettner]

2x 6 units = 12 units

Is it 3 spots per unit or 3 spots per building? I can't imagine 12 units with 6 parking so I assumed 36 spots (12 x 3)

 

[Nubo]

3 spaces for 6 families sounds a bit tight. If someone has an EV are they going to assume they have dibs on the available spots? Could be a cause for squabbles.

 

[davewill]

I already own an aerovironment one, and a bosch power max. I was thinking of just using them until they break. It's pretty much residential.

Sure. Since you already have them, no reason not to use them. They should be fine. They both need 40a circuits, so run the wire one size bigger so that you can do 40a EVSEs later.

 

[johnrhansen]

I have to provide one parking spot for 2 units for a total of 6 spots for 12 units (they are 1 bedroom units designed for all the single google and amazon workers here) Everyone uses bicycles, bus and car 2 go. It ought to be enough. If not, I have a lot outside available (holding for phase 2 of the project) where I can make more spots. Once phase 2 is complete in a couple years depending on money there will be plenty of parking for everyone, but yeah for now with just those 6 spots parking is tight. But that is the minimum the city requires.

I wonder if I ought to put a L6-20 or L6-30 in for all the EVSE upgrade users. If I use a L6-20, I can provide a simple switch type disconnect so the power could be shut off before unplugging.

 

[davewill]

... I wonder if I ought to put a L6-20 or L6-30 in for all the EVSE upgrade users. If I use a L6-20, I can provide a simple switch type disconnect so the power could be shut off before unplugging.

You don't want to shut off power to the car any way but by unplugging the J1772 handle. It properly signals the car to stop drawing power before you unplug, and the EVSE makes sure the J1772 plug is not live if it's not plugged in. Unplugging an L6 plug is also pretty safe. It's nearly impossible to shock yourself on those because the blades are so short, and the twist action connects and disconnects the power to them anyway.

That said, as a landlord myself, I'd just stick with UL approved, outdoor rated, EVSE's. They are built to be so safe that I wouldn't hesitate to let a preschooler plug or unplug one (except maybe worrying he might drop the handle on the paint job) With them hard wired, there's as close to zero chance as possible that someone could hurt themselves or their car. Besides there's no advantage to the tenant to let them use some other hardware. They're compatible with every EV sold currently and in the last 4 years.

 

[smkettner]

Just 6 spots, I would put an LCS-20 at every spot.
That is possible 90 amps on the 200 amp panel. (15 amp load each)

30 amps at each site would be 144 and about max out the panel. 40 amps is an overload when exterior lighting or a laundry room is considered..

 

[johnrhansen]

oh, there must be a demand factor involved. I haven't done any load calculations yet. But these are two separate buildings 6 units each, 3 spots each. Each building is going to have a 400 amp main service, (solar provisions) probably 60 amp house panels, and however big house panel I need to fit everything. Maybe 60 amps will do there too. (no common laundry). Maybe I can put the 30 I already own in the one with two spots, and a 20 in the single spot. with a 120 volt in each spot too. This gives me 5 spots, the maximum built green points I am allowed for this. (all per building) Gas cooktops, dryers, and hot water, and a 12,000 btu ductless minisplit in each unit.