Peaceful Protest Underway against Tar Sands Oil Pipeline

[AndyH]

Perspective on the scale of the tar sands extraction process and what it's leaving behind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84zIj_EdQdM[/youtube]

 

[surfingslovak]

This video is incredible, well worth watching. Although I worked in Alberta a while ago, I didn't pay much attention to tar sands mining. Until I saw this video on YouTube this morning. Thanks for posting, Andy.

 

[AndyH]

Wonder why there's such a strong push to get the tar sands crude to a US refinery?

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/2...y-oil-flint-pipelines-refinery-alberta-canada

Koch Brothers' Activism Protects Their 50-Year Stake in Canadian Heavy Oils

Long involvement in Canada's tar sands has been central to Koch Industries' evolution and positions the billionaire brothers for a new oil boom.

 

[mrradon]

Wonder why there's such a strong push to get the tar sands crude to a US refinery?

JOBS, JOBS, JOBS

 

[Herm]

China is also willing to refine it, if they can get the tar to a west coast port. The Gulf refineries have lots of tar processing capacity, due to the falloff in Venezuelan tar production.

 

[AndyH]

Wonder why there's such a strong push to get the tar sands crude to a US refinery?

JOBS, JOBS, JOBS

How many permanent jobs do you reckon this pipeline will provide, and in which country?

 

[AndyH]

China is also willing to refine it, if they can get the tar to a west coast port. The Gulf refineries have lots of tar processing capacity, due to the falloff in Venezuelan tar production.

All that appears to be very correct, Herm. But there's more to the story and it's coming out in bits and pieces.

The companies/industries that stand to benefit from the exploitation of the tar sands crude have been orchestrating on two layers - the first is in getting the stuff out of the ground, then to a suitable refinery, and then to a buyer. The second layer is what appears to be the 'public message' - that it's about jobs, or it's about our own energy independence. Those are good goals - excellent goals! But as soon as we look behind the curtain we realize that there is little or no connection between the layers.

The bottom line is that the suitable refineries on the Gulf coast are in a tax free export zone. The products of the refining are destined for sale overseas. Yes, folks in the US get paid to refine the oil. But the companies that run the refineries are multinationals that will not be paying significant taxes to the US on their profits. And not only are the American people taking all the physical risks for the actual pipelines and the damage they are and will cause, but the American people as a whole will have to pay to clean up any spills.

We give up our land, we pay any and all prices for problems, a few hundred refinery workers keep their jobs, and the oil company makes a killing selling the refined products on the world market.

Does that sound like a good plan to you?

 

[Herm]

Does that sound like a good plan to you?

Yes it does, any job and the money it brings to a community is welcome.. pipeline spills are rare and easily cleaned up.. shipping it overseas is far more dangerous. I also believe a US refinery will do a cleaner job refining the tar than anyone else.

Also, since its refined on US soil all it takes is an executive order to prevent the refined product from being exported, if we get desperate enough... much easier than trying to get hold of that refined product in China. If the demand in the US picks up then it will be sold here, no foreigner will get preference.

 

[AndyH]

Does that sound like a good plan to you?

Yes it does, any job and the money it brings to a community is welcome.. pipeline spills are rare and easily cleaned up..

Normal spills aren't that easily cleaned up - even by current 'out of sight, out of mind' practices. But we already have bitumen flowing through US pipelines - and the leak that happened in Michigan more than a year ago still isn't cleaned up - and both the pipeline company and EPA reps on the scene admit they didn't expect it would be this bad - and have no idea how to clean it.

820,000 gallons in Michigan
250,000 gallons outside Chicago
21,000 gallons in North Dakota
1.3 million gallons in Alberta
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/aswift/yet_another_leak_on_a_new_pipe.html
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/rkistner/michigan_residents_battle_a_ta.html

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/19/keystone_pipeline_will_spill_study_predicts/

A new Cornell University study claims that the pipeline could actually have a negative impact on the economies of the states it would pass through.

The already existing Keystone I pipeline, which runs 2,100 miles from Alberta to Illinois, began operating in 2010; in the two years since, 35 spills have occurred. In the pipeline’s first year of operation alone, its spill rate was 100 times TransCanada’s projection.

shipping it overseas is far more dangerous. I also believe a US refinery will do a cleaner job refining the tar than anyone else.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84zIj_EdQdM[/youtube]

Also, since its refined on US soil all it takes is an executive order to prevent the refined product from being exported, if we get desperate enough... much easier than trying to get hold of that refined product in China. If the demand in the US picks up then it will be sold here, no foreigner will get preference.

Can you help me find information on why exporting needs an executive order? Though I suspect it's a moot point since we're exporting plenty of finished products today from our tax-free export zone.

In other words, Herm, the "nice folks" in the US oil and gas production 'system' COULD be bringing fuel prices down in the USA - but they're exporting gasoline because they can make more money that way. Do you really think they give a DAMN about a few hundred workers in Gulf refineries? Or anyone else between the Gulf and Alberta?

 

[AndyH]

DOT/NTSB release Michigan 'DilBit' tarsands pipeline rupture/oil spill documents. The pipeline ruptured in July 2010 and the oil is still not cleaned up.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/feds-release-enbridge-oil-spill-docs
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...dRow=15&StartRow=1&order=1&sort=0&TXTSEARCHT=

The 6 1/2 foot rupture spilled more than 800,000 gallons of diluted bitumen before the pipeline was shut down. The first 911 call came in from local people that smelled 'gas' at 9:26pm July 25th 2010. Enbridge finally shut down the pipeline at 11:20AM on July 26th - almost 14 hours later.



MSDS for diluted bitumen:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=362032&docketID=49814&mkey=76766

 

[AndyH]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZrr-4DCZL8[/youtube]

 

[AndyH]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrROgJpNJH0[/youtube]

 

[Herm]

Robert Rapier lands a devastating blow on Keystone XL protesters:

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/07/16/environmentalism-is-a-profitable-business/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I want to preface this column by saying that I am very concerned about climate change. The rapid growth of atmospheric carbon dioxide shows no sign of abating, and I have concerns over what this will ultimately mean for the climate. The fact is that we are conducting a global experiment with the atmosphere, and predictions of severe consequences as a result should be taken with the utmost seriousness."

 

[AndyH]

Robert Rapier lands a devastating blow on Keystone XL protesters:

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/07/16/environmentalism-is-a-profitable-business/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I want to preface this column by saying that I am very concerned about climate change. The rapid growth of atmospheric carbon dioxide shows no sign of abating, and I have concerns over what this will ultimately mean for the climate. The fact is that we are conducting a global experiment with the atmosphere, and predictions of severe consequences as a result should be taken with the utmost seriousness."

Gack. He's really concerned - but in his next bout of dancing fingers he says:

Having said that, I think it is important to maintain a healthy scientific discourse on the matter. “The science is settled” is just not a statement that I am comfortable with, and I am uncomfortable labeling those who question climate change with something that evokes comparisons with Holocaust denial.

This is nothing more than a denialist talking point quickly dipped in high fructose corn syrup.

The fact remains that the science is very settled when it comes to the fact that the planet is warming, that mankind is the primary cause, and that the destabilization we're seeing today was predicted in the 1950s.

In other industry news, the company that's pushing the Keystone XL project and that brought the diluted bitumen spill in Michigan 2 years ago that still cannot be cleaned, is trying to end-run the upper segment of the XL pipeline by running it through Michigan. That's progress, I guess - instead of possibly contaminating the Ogallala aquifer they can take a second swipe at the Great Lakes. Yee Haw.

 

[Herm]

Andy, you dipped quickly into name calling.

 

[AndyH]

This is one of the primary reasons why there is so much resistance to the whole bitumen extraction, dilution, and pipeline process:

Three numbers: 2° C, 565 gigatons, and 2795 gigatons. We need to keep the temperature rise to less than 2°C. In order to do that, we cannot add more than 565 gigatons of old carbon to the atmosphere. 2795 gigatons is the amount of carbon in fossil fuel reserves available today that we're planning to burn. That's why Dr. Hanson used the phrase "game over for the climate" if we extract/burn the garbage from Alberta.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=214612#p214612
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719?print=true

The Third Number: 2,795 Gigatons

This number is the scariest of all – one that, for the first time, meshes the political and scientific dimensions of our dilemma. It was highlighted last summer by the Carbon Tracker Initiative, a team of London financial analysts and environmentalists who published a report in an effort to educate investors about the possible risks that climate change poses to their stock portfolios. The number describes the amount of carbon already contained in the proven coal and oil and gas reserves of the fossil-fuel companies, and the countries (think Venezuela or Kuwait) that act like fossil-fuel companies. In short, it's the fossil fuel we're currently planning to burn. And the key point is that this new number – 2,795 – is higher than 565. Five times higher.

 

[AndyH]

Andy, you dipped quickly into name calling.

Really? Where?

Is it this?

... This is nothing more than a denialist talking point quickly dipped in high fructose corn syrup...

The simple fact is that suggesting there's no consensus is exactly one of the denialist tactics that goes back through the fossil fuel industry to Heartland et al to the tobacco companies.

http://grist.org/series/skeptics/

Sorry Herm - that's a denialist post from a pro-fossil fuel site. Period. Might as well be getting climate information from Exxon.

 

[AndyH]

Keystone end-run in the works...

http://climatecrocks.com/2012/07/26/guest-post-trailbreaker-the-tar-sands-end-run/

This is the line that put bitumen spills on the wider map back in 2010, when Enbridge pumped over a million gallons of tar sands bitumen through a pipe rupture and into the Kalamazoo River in Michigan. Known as the Dilbit Disaster (dilbit is diluted bitumen), this spill demonstrated that while conventional oil spills can be catastrophic, responding to bitumen spills is much harder.

But bitumen and diluted bitumen aren’t actually a kind of crude oil (the IRS actually relieves tar sands streams from some taxes for this very reason), they’re a different beast altogether, as the spill responders at the Kalamazoo River learned the hard way.

 

[Herm]

Denialist is an ugly word with Holocaust connotations.. I hope you are better than that. No videos in the links I post, just easy to read non-emotional text.. try it.

Also from Robert Rapier.. we could burn all of Canada and it would not make a dent in the CO2 balance of the world compared to the coal burning emissions from Asia. More on this topic..

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/07/26/the-facts-about-canadas-oil-sands-and-climate-change/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[AndyH]

Unemotional? I see. Try this one on for size - in my best unemotional, robotic monotone:

1. The greenhouse effect is well known and has more than 100 years of science backing it up
2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas - known to store and re-radiate heat in the lower atmosphere that should have escaped into space
3. Science is able to distinguish between current carbon and old carbon
4. All of the scientific academies on Earth agree that the earth is warming, that CO2 is the primary gas, and that mankind is the source of the old carbon that's causing an enhanced greenhouse effect
5. There are very strong interests on the planet that fund and support a denial industry with one goal - to suggest that the science really isn't settled and that business as usual is the best course of action - this ensures their massive cash flow
6. The website you quoted from is an industry site that is known to misrepresent facts and spread disinformation about man's impact on climate
7. If there isn't enough information on this forum alone to prove that 1-6 are facts and that it's almost too late to act, then anyone still clinging to denial should lose their citizenship and be shipped to their dome in Saudi Arabia with one coal power plant and one 12-18 inch tall potted rhododendron. Starting yesterday. Let me help - here's a box to get things started:

Beep.