PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

[oakwcj]

I have the protest filed by the Division of Ratepayer Advocates. It is quite lengthy [an 8 page PDF], and somewhat technical, but DRA had data from PG&E that was unavailable to us, which demonstrates exactly how awful the proposal is. If you would like a copy, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

 

[oakwcj]

I've posted the DRA Protest as a Google Doc:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...2EtY2Y3Ni00MmQ0LWFhOGQtMmZmMzMzNTA3YTA5&hl=en

 

[edatoakrun]

I've posted the DRA Protest as a Google Doc:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...2EtY2Y3Ni00MmQ0LWFhOGQtMmZmMzMzNTA3YTA5&hl=en

Thanks.

Good work by the DRA.

I don’t quite follow the argument for the service charge of $4 for E9A, though. Isn’t that currently only a ($6.56) temporary charge, until PG&E gets “smart meter” software installed? Is the DRA suggesting a temporary or permanent meter charge of $4?

Do you (or does anyone else) know what the rate design process will be in the future?

Any hearings, or other opportunities for public comment?

 

[BryanM]

Check out the protests that were filed yesterday:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PUBLISHED/DAILY_CALENDAR/145659.htm#P471_41507" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of opposition to PG&E's application.

Well done everyone!

 

[BlueSL]

Wow...the proposed change in rates really is utter crap. Unless, you are a consumer that regularly hits Tier 4 and 5 of your electricity rate, this proposed change will effectively cost you much more. Those who conserve on electricity usage are extremely short-changed by this proposal.

Yes, there will be winners and losers under the proposal. Those of us who were well into Tier 4 before we added an EV to our daily consumption will be winners.

But the notion that those in the lower tiers conserve and those in the higher tiers do not is hogwash. I'm in tier 4 mostly because there are four people living at home and our house is large. The house is also new (2008) and obviously up to code. So we have CFLs galore, new energy efficient appliances, etc. But four people using their computers at once in a single household? That happens every night at my house and there's not much we can do about it except go to the library to use the county's electricity.

PG&E has been over-charging the higher tiers and under-charging the lower ones. That's a fact. Call it class warfare. ( ) It works for me, because right now every Kw I put into my Leaf is in Tier 4 (or 5), and I'm paying almost triple what Tier 2 juice costs. (Indeed, electricity for the Leaf is costing me about $1.00 more per day than did $4.25/gallon gasoline for my Nissan Altima Hybrid -- an energy expense increase of better than 20%).

 

[oakwcj]

I've posted the DRA Protest as a Google Doc:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...2EtY2Y3Ni00MmQ0LWFhOGQtMmZmMzMzNTA3YTA5&hl=en

Thanks.

Good work by the DRA.

I don’t quite follow the argument for the service charge of $4 for E9A, though. Isn’t that currently only a ($6.56) temporary charge, until PG&E gets “smart meter” software installed? Is the DRA suggesting a temporary or permanent meter charge of $4?

Do you (or does anyone else) know what the rate design process will be in the future?

Any hearings, or other opportunities for public comment?

The Advice Letter was [purportedly] filed in response to this Decision:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/Final_decision/139969.htm#TopOfPage

The CPUC has a page collecting a lot of documents relating to its Alternative Fueled Vehicle Proceeding:

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/hottopics/1Energy/090814_ev.htm

Until PG&E decided to jump the gun on this process, the plan was to revise rates in 2013. I imagine there will be a hearing process in late 2012, or early 2013.

 

[greenleaf]

Yes, there will be winners and losers under the proposal. Those of us who were well into Tier 4 before we added an EV to our daily consumption will be winners.

But the notion that those in the lower tiers conserve and those in the higher tiers do not is hogwash. I'm in tier 4 mostly because there are four people living at home and our house is large. The house is also new (2008) and obviously up to code. So we have CFLs galore, new energy efficient appliances, etc. But four people using their computers at once in a single household? That happens every night at my house and there's not much we can do about it except go to the library to use the county's electricity.

PG&E has been over-charging the higher tiers and under-charging the lower ones. That's a fact. Call it class warfare. ( ) It works for me, because right now every kw I put into my Leaf is in Tier 4 (or 5), and I'm paying almost triple what Tier 2 juice costs.

I think what upsets the E9 people most is that they have partly made the decision to purchase Leaf based on the existing rates schedules / tiers for E9. What PG&E is proposing will drastically change the rate schedules and tiers.

 

[oakwcj]

Yes, there will be winners and losers under the proposal.

According to PG&E, there will be three losers for every winner under its proposal, but even the winners are likely to lose as the E-9 user population first shrinks, and then the whole rate is eliminated because it "failed."

 

[BlueSL]

I think what upsets the E9 people most is that they have partly made the decision to purchase Leaf based on the existing rates schedules / tiers for E9. What PG&E is proposing will drastically change the rate schedules and tiers.

Early adoption is a b*&($. At the end of 2010, I paid to have AV install my EVSE long before I had the car in order to take advantage of the $1,000 tax credit. Little did I know Ecotality would expand to Norcal and give EVSEs away! I have not put in a second meter, or switched rate schedules -- mainly because I knew that PG&E was way behind the curve in accommodating the coming EV revolution. The other shoe had to drop eventually. The old/current PG&E scheme is too Rube Goldberg and too hard to explain. It is an inhibitor to EV mass adoption.

 

[edatoakrun]

I just received a copy of the request from PG&E to the CPUC for an extension, from 10/24 to 11/14, to respond to the "significant number of protests" to the advice letter...

 

[oakwcj]

I just received a copy of the request from PG&E to the CPUC for an extension, from 10/24 to 11/14, to respond to the "significant number of protests" to the advice letter...

My quick count is 78 names on the service list. I'd say that's a significant number.

 

[csriram45]

Yeah I recd. that email too. I wonder if its based on people who complained or those who are on E9 rates? I wonder if we know how many PGE customers are currently on E9 rates and what % have complained.

 

[oakwcj]

Yeah I recd. that email too. I wonder if its based on people who complained or those who are on E9 rates? I wonder if we know how many PGE customers are currently on E9 rates and what % have complained.

According to PG&E, there are 324 people on E-9A and 35 on E-9B. The service list is comprised of those who filed protest letters. There are some duplications, because three DRA analysts signed its letter, and two people from Plugin America signed theirs. It's still a substantial list.

 

[BlueSL]

Yeah I recd. that email too. I wonder if its based on people who complained or those who are on E9 rates? I wonder if we know how many PGE customers are currently on E9 rates and what % have complained.

According to PG&E, there are 324 people on E-9A and 35 on E-9B.

That tells you how pathetic a job the current rate structure is doing in getting people to switch to those rates. The people buying these cars now are on the bleeding edge. They actually understand all this stuff, and that is the best PG&E can do in terms of attracting new customers?

It is time for a massive simplification of rates for EV owners. Without it, the Leaf and its competitors are going to have problems. Because, on E1, the cars are not cheap to operate. As I mentioned above, I am actually paying more per mile than I did for my hybrid -- and the car is much less useful because of its limited range. (I recognize I may get some of that extra expense back in the form of less maintenance).

EVs cannot be all about sacrifice by the owner for the benefit of the planet. That will not lead to mass adoption because it is not human nature. (Google the tragedy of the commons). Some part of the equation must make economic sense for the owner. Apparently, not many Leaf owners think E9 rates make sense.

 

[oakwcj]

That tells you how pathetic a job the current rate structure is doing in getting people to switch to those rates. The people buying these cars now are on the bleeding edge. They actually understand all this stuff, and that is the best PG&E can do in terms of attracting new customers?

What these pathetic numbers tell me is how successful PG&E has been in discouraging EV owners from going on the E-9 rate and how successful they've been in keeping the E-9 rate's existence very quiet. [It's also true that a lot of current EV owners are on the E-6 or E-7 rate.] But that's not good enough. Now they're trying to kill E-9 entirely. There aren't any new customers to attract. We're already captives of their monopoly.

 

[csriram45]

I changed to E9-a one month before I got my Leaf and I think its been great for me. Agreed its taken a bit of adjustment due to the TOU and Peak, Off Peak strategy but I tend to run most of my heavy appliances at Off peak and it has kept my electricity rates to about the same as what it was last summer. So even after adding my Leaf my electricity cost was same.... I think I couldn't ask more more. Now with this new rate... I think its just going to make it all go down the drain and I would just switch back to E1 so that I can just not have to worry about the time and not have to deal with my wife always being upset when I tell her that we should run the appliance at a later time.... Beats the whole purpose of being green...

 

[planet4ever]

According to PG&E, there are 324 people on E-9A and 35 on E-9B.

That tells you how pathetic a job the current rate structure is doing in getting people to switch to those rates. The people buying these cars now are on the bleeding edge. They actually understand all this stuff, and that is the best PG&E can do in terms of attracting new customers?

Well, of course, as a monopoly they never attract new customers; they already have (nearly) 100% of the customers in their service area. But on your "bleeding edge" and "understand" point, my (probably biased) opinion is that all LEAF owners who understand PUC-mandated rates in California should be working toward getting solar panels if that is feasible for their homes. Of course it isn't feasible in many situations, but where it is I am now convinced that PG&E's E6 rate will save money over E9 in a majority of cases. So, as oakwcj also suggested in response to your post, solar panels become an important factor in low acceptance of E9.

Ray

 

[edatoakrun]

Check your mail-

On Monday, November 14, 2011, Pacific Gas and Electric Company submitted its reply to the protests received on Advice 3910-E.

 

[oakwcj]

Check your mail-

On Monday, November 14, 2011, Pacific Gas and Electric Company submitted its reply to the protests received on Advice 3910-E.

Eight pages of obfuscation and PG&E still doesn't provide data comparing their proposal to E-1. The response simply speculates that EV owners who aren't on E-9 now might switch once the new rates take effect. The basic tone of the response is that EV owners are a bunch of spoiled, rich, coastal dwellers, and that no matter how high they jack up the rates, they will still be cheaper than gasoline.

 

[mxp]

Check your mail-

On Monday, November 14, 2011, Pacific Gas and Electric Company submitted its reply to the protests received on Advice 3910-E.

Eight pages of obfuscation and PG&E still doesn't provide data comparing their proposal to E-1. The response simply speculates that EV owners who aren't on E-9 now might switch once the new rates take effect. The basic tone of the response is that EV owners are a bunch of spoiled, rich, coastal dwellers, and that no matter how high they jack up the rates, they will still be cheaper than gasoline.

What's the latest update here wrt the rate hike? Did our protest emails got anywhere? Did the CPUC vote on a decision?

I haven't received any email nor mail from PGE yet.

Thanks.