PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

[greenleaf]

...i have not simulated E9B with a separate meter. the ~$2k upfront cost of installing a 2nd meter has kind of stopped me from thinking about it. but a rough calculation says that it would take about 5 years to pay for the 2nd meter...

And there is no guarantee that the E9B rate will be available through the five years it would take to pay off the second meter.

The electric schedule for E9 states that it is "experimental". This suggests that this schedule could really be gone or drastically changed.

 

[Spies]

Eight pages of obfuscation and PG&E still doesn't provide data comparing their proposal to E-1.

Interesting article on SF Gate today:
Law allows state PUC to keep utilities data secret
Seems if PG&E does not want to share their data with the public they don't have too.

 

[glemieux]

I'm coming in late to this discussion and I don't have much to add to it besides echoing what others have mentioned here. I did find one blatant fiction, however paltry compared to the real issue here. It's concerning this statement:

"Customers can access this tool online or request a personalized analysis by calling PG&E’s Building and Renovation Service Center (BRSC) line."

I requested this "personalized analysis" twice through the BRSC of PG&E and was denied flat-out. Once in November and again in December. Either their customer staff was woefully unaware of the offer (which I admit is a reasonable possibility) or the person who drafted this analysis is running on old info (or lying).

 

[leafetarian]

Sorry I am late at this discussion and didn't even know anything was happening to E9A. I have been on E9A for 8 months but PG&E hasn't notified me about the change.
I read several pages of this thread but am confused as situation has been quite fluid.
Should we be writing letters? If so, can somebody please share a draft?

Also, how do I participate in CPUC meetings?

Thanks

 

[DeaneG]

.."Customers can access this tool online or request a personalized analysis by calling PG&E’s Building and Renovation Service Center (BRSC) line."
I requested this "personalized analysis" twice through the BRSC of PG&E and was denied flat-out. Once in November and again in December. Either their customer staff was woefully unaware of the offer (which I admit is a reasonable possibility) or the person who drafted this analysis is running on old info (or lying).

I had the "analysis" done, but the result was useless (GIGO). The analyst looked at my previous year's consumption without considering either the electric car or the solar panels which I just added and carefully informed them about. So they said I should stay on E1. When I requested a re-analysis, they quietly switched me to E9A and I never heard back.

I recently calculated that E9A saved me about $500 last year compared to E1.

 

[edatoakrun]

PG&E just raised E1 rates. E1 bills will go up about 1%-4%

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[greenleaf]

Did I see it wrong? E9A off-peak tier 1 drops to $0.03743/kWh in summer and $0.0468/kWh in winter??

 

[Spies]

Wow, quite a bit of change to E9. First thing that caught my eye is E9 has effectively 4 tiers now when before it had only 3. Will need to explore further. Thanks for giving the heads up edatoakrun.

 

[greenleaf]

Yeah. Sounds like a price drop for me in summer because I am entirely in tier 1 due to my solar panels. Could be a wash in winter when I might reach into tier 3.

 

[oakwcj]

I found the CPUC decision authorizing these changes pursuant to Advice Letter 3896-E. It's extremely technical and involves decisions both by the CPUC and FERC. Overall, it will increase PG&E's revenue by 3.6%. I did a search of the CPUC decision and didn't find any reference to the E-9 rate:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PUBLISHED/COMMENT_RESOLUTION/153307.htm

Those off-peak rates are really low!

 

[Nekota]

PG&E just raised E1 rates. E1 bills will go up about 1%-4%

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those who like spreadsheet versions and look at the history use this link - http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ericsf]

I did a search of the CPUC decision and didn't find any reference to the E-9 rate

Agree. The notice to remove tiers from E9-A was 3910-E. As far as I can tell, this is unrelated.

 

[Spies]

It seems PG&E moved the Total Baseline Credit into the rates so it is no longer separate giving the illusion that some rates went down as far as I can tell. The discussion of these rates changes should probably be in the other PG&E thread as it has nothing to do with Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates.

 

[edatoakrun]

I posted the E1 rate change here because this was the most recent of many, PG&E rate threads.

E9 rates have not changed, as far as I can tell.

For over a year I was (apparently) misinformed, by both several PG&E representatives, and the posted tariffs, as to actual E9A off-peak tier 1 rates (as I suspect, were many others).

My (3 so far) dumb E9A TOU meter incomprehensible paper bills, do reflect (approximately) the 3.743 cent/kWh summer and 4.680 cent winter tier 1 off peak rates, but PG&E's math on the "baseline energy charge" seems to be inaccurate.

Do all of your E9A bills conform to the explanation from 12/21 Email I received from PG&E, below?

...Here are a couple of links to our electric tariff pages that I hope you will find helpful:

Web tariff book: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Direct link to E-9 tariff: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Archive of TOU rates: http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC_TOU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The last link will give you access to tables showing both the current and also recent historic residential TOU rates. (Although the Schedule E-9 rate information was first added to these tables only with the October 1, 2009 rate changes.) As I mentioned the last time we spoke, there was a change that just became effective last month in how the Tier 1 rates are presented in these tables. Prior to November 1, 2011 - you need to subtract the listed "Baseline Credit" rate from the listed Tier 1 price to get the effective charge for Tier 1 usage. Starting with the November 1, 2011 tariffs, we have made that credit part of the published Tier 1 rate; hopefully, to make the tariff a little easier for people to follow.

 

[Spies]

Do all of your E9A bills conform to the explanation from 12/21 Email I received from PG&E, below?

As I mentioned the last time we spoke, there was a change that just became effective last month in how the Tier 1 rates are presented in these tables. Prior to November 1, 2011 - you need to subtract the listed "Baseline Credit" rate from the listed Tier 1 price to get the effective charge for Tier 1 usage. Starting with the November 1, 2011 tariffs, we have made that credit part of the published Tier 1 rate; hopefully, to make the tariff a little easier for people to follow.

I am not sure what PG&E is up to including the baseline credit into the actual rate but I suspect it can't be good. I have not taken the time to look but is PG&E including the baseline credit into all residential rates or just E9? I will keep an eye out for my latest bill but at least my E9A bills prior to this change have matched the posted tariffs and includes a section where the baseline credit is computed.

edatoakrun, do you get a separate E9A itemized bill of about 11 pages in the mail each month? That is what I have been getting and without it I am not sure how one would be able to compare a bill to the tariff.

I just looked more closely at my November bill and sure enough the rate change effective 11/01/11 is there and thus removed the baseline energy credit for days after that date. With PG&E tariffs changing so often it is hard to keep up.

 

[Spies]

Does anyone have a link to the 11/01/11 E9 pdf document? It has already been replaced by the 01/01/12 document on the PG&E site.

 

[edatoakrun]

"Spies"edatoakrun, do you get a separate E9A itemized bill of about 11 pages in the mail each month? That is what I have been getting and without it I am not sure how one would be able to compare a bill to the tariff.

My December paper "bill' was 7 pages, nowhere listing the actual cost per kWh.

Try multiplying your kWh used by the costs on the tariff sheet, and see if that total is equal to "Baseline Energy Charges" (or as otherwise itemized, my bill is all tier 1) , from p 1 of your bill.

Mine don't seem to add up correctly.

No, I don't have a copy of the pre-November tariff sheet, from which, IIRC, tier 1 was priced at about 5.3 cents summer, 6.3 cents winter. These are the prices I used in calculating my protest letter on this thread, BTW, and I sure wish I could figure out WTF PG&E is actually now charging me, so i could do an accurate comparison between the different E rates.

 

[Spies]

edatoakrun, does your bill look anything like this one?

I also just so happened to get my December E9A bill today and without access to the 11/01/11 tariff document I can't compare the rates since the online E9 tariff already has the changes set to go into effect on the first. However this is what I was billed for December:

Off Tier 1: 0.04457
Off Tier 2: 0.06186
Off Tier 3: 0.15715
Part Tier 1: 0.09394
Part Tier 2: 0.11123
Part Tier 3: 0.29131

According to the new tariff my next bill should look like the following:

Off Tier 1: 0.04680
Off Tier 2: 0.06495
Off Tier 3: 0.15786
Part Tier 1: 0.09864
Part Tier 2: 0.11679
Part Tier 3: 0.29679

 

[edatoakrun]

edatoakrun, does your bill look anything like this one?

I also just so happened to get my December E9A bill today and without access to the 11/01/11 tariff document I can't compare the rates since the online E9 tariff already has the changes set to go into effect on the first. However this is what I was billed for December:

Off Tier 1: 0.04457
Off Tier 2: 0.06186
Off Tier 3: 0.15715
Part Tier 1: 0.09394
Part Tier 2: 0.11123
Part Tier 3: 0.29131

According to the new tariff my next bill should look like the following:

Off Tier 1: 0.04680
Off Tier 2: 0.06495
Off Tier 3: 0.15786
Part Tier 1: 0.09864
Part Tier 2: 0.11679
Part Tier 3: 0.29679

MY understanding is that there was supposed to be NO changes in E9A rates, only in the bizarro world of PG&E tariff postings and billing format.

My bills look just like yours, but, beginning in December, there is no longer a "Baseline Energy Credit" item, such as that on P 1 of your July bill, which PG&E now ( I think...) says, was also on the now-disappeared earlier E9A A tariff schedule, causing the confusion.

So You are saying that the first column above, is what you calculated that PG&E actually billed you in December, and that this is lower than current tariffs, correct?

That’s what it looked like on my bill, also, though I can’t see how to break it down by op/pp and tiers, as it looks like you did?

 

[Spies]

MY understanding is that there was supposed to be NO changes in E9A rates, only in the bizarro world of PG&E tariff postings and billing format.

I have no idea why you would think that. Perhaps there were no effective cost changes between the 06/20/11 rate and the 11/01/11 rate but I don't have a copy of the 11/01/11 rate to compare to. I do have a copy of the 06/20/11 rate by the way.

So You are saying that the first column above, is what you calculated that PG&E actually billed you in December, and that this is lower than current tariffs, correct?

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by "current tariffs" as the first set of rates I posted above were copied form my December bill and the second copied from the tariff set to go into effect on the first.

That’s what it looked like on my bill, also, though I can’t see how to break it down by op/pp and tiers, as it looks like you did?

Sorry, not sure what you mean here either. The first set of rates I posted are simply from "total rate" of the "Baseline Energy Charges" of my bill.