Possible Widespread 2018-19 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

[Evoforce]

OTOH, I put in a request that did supposedly get to Nissan Corporate. I asked about special ordering an SL with cloth seats. The response was that the SL was their 'top of the line car' and that if I wanted cloth seats I should order a loaded SV. This after I noted that Around View now comes only with the SL. They really don't care what customers think, or want, as long as we buy the cars.

Mass production means a limited set of choices. Need to satisfy enough customers, not every customer. Do they care what you think? Not if you are not in the target group. Want to drive 500 miles days with 4 QC sessions? You are not in the target group of customers.

I think they are going to greatly improve this car. They got caught flat footed and I believe they are scrambling to catch up. Of course they are not going to admit that. So they might say things like they are filling some niche or they aren't competing with xyz. When they catch up they can say they are a better product and have more experience than xyz. I am hoping that 2019 will be their revival.

 

[WetEV]

Mass production means a limited set of choices. Need to satisfy enough customers, not every customer. Do they care what you think? Not if you are not in the target group. Want to drive 500 miles days with 4 QC sessions? You are not in the target group of customers.

I think they are going to greatly improve this car. They got caught flat footed and I believe they are scrambling to catch up. Of course they are not going to admit that. So they might say things like they are filling some niche or they aren't competing with xyz. When they catch up they can say they are a better product and have more experience than xyz. I am hoping that 2019 will be their revival.

I suspect that your idea of how to improve the car might not match Nissan's.

 

[Joe6pack]

Exactly. The LEAF is a world car, not just a North American car. It is never going to have every bell and whistle. Compromises will be made - just like Tesla. Want your Model 3 sans premium interior - too bad.

 

[Evoforce]

Exactly. The LEAF is a world car, not just a North American car. It is never going to have every bell and whistle. Compromises will be made - just like Tesla. Want your Model 3 sans premium interior - too bad.

No matter where it sells in the world, it has to keep up. It better step up it's game with the battery in particular.

 

[WetEV]

No matter where it sells in the world, it has to keep up. It better step up it's game with the battery in particular.

Yes, the Leaf needs to keep up. if that is by cost reduction, that is one path. If is by gaining high performance features, that is a different path.

You think the Leaf should follow T esla down the high performance path. And only the high performance path.

There might be a sizable market down both paths. Maybe both a lower cost, higher reliability BEV and a higher performance BEV make sense.

 

[OrientExpress]

World-wide the 2018 LEAF is selling around 30K units a month. For the market that Nissan has chosen to dominate they are doing just fine. Want a higher performance or longer range LEAF? No worries wait till the fall. Want a Luxo-LEAF? Next year look to Infiniti to scratch that itch. Want a mid-sized SUV/CUV, again 2019 is your year.

 

[kennethbokor]

World-wide the 2018 LEAF is selling around 30K units a month. For the market that Nissan has chosen to dominate they are doing just fine. Want a higher performance or longer range LEAF? No worries wait till the fall. Want a Luxo-LEAF? Next year look to Infiniti to scratch that itch. Want a mid-sized SUV/CUV, again 2019 is your year.

Totally agree. Nissan is going after the markets they want and the good thing is with most other major manufacturers spooling up BEV/EV's, there is going to be more choice then ever in the next few years. If they don't step up as some say they should, then they will feel the impact of that as others will come in and take over this marketplace (Kia/Hyundai is a great example of potential here).

I'm certainly excited to be witnessing the paradigm shift that has and is continuing to occur within the consumer transportation sector and over the next generation, we should see EV's surpass ICE in most major markets as the vehicle of choice.

 

[Evoforce]

No matter where it sells in the world, it has to keep up. It better step up it's game with the battery in particular.

Yes, the Leaf needs to keep up. if that is by cost reduction, that is one path. If is by gaining high performance features, that is a different path.

You think the Leaf should follow T esla down the high performance path. And only the high performance path.

There might be a sizable market down both paths. Maybe both a lower cost, higher reliability BEV and a higher performance BEV make sense.

No, I am happy with my older Leafs as they are, with the exception of bad battery longevity which lead to major depreciation, and wish they had more range.

I am glad that Nissan is making the car look more mainstream and wished they would have had unlimited range in 2018. I say unlimited because when you think of a gas car, it isn't defined by how much the gas tank holds because of the ease of refueling. Nissan for 2018, has created a bigger battery (tank) but now has to be filled with a straw (so to speak) at stations that are few and far between. Hence needing a larger battery (tank) but we don't need a slowdown in fill up.

I am sure pro-pilot is a good feature that others will enjoy but I can't wait for them to fix their Achilles heel and that (of course) is their un-cooled traction battery. The Leaf is a joy to drive and is actually easier to get into and depart out of, especially for my wheelchair bound daughter. I had hoped to keep at least one of my Leafs very long term with the hope/path of a good battery upgrade for it.

 

[WetEV]

I can't wait for them to fix their Achilles heel and that (of course) is their un-cooled traction battery.

Note that some cooled traction battery cars have poorer life than the Leaf, even in hot places.

Battery life isn't as simple as some have suggested.

 

[Evoforce]

I can't wait for them to fix their Achilles heel and that (of course) is their un-cooled traction battery.

Note that some cooled traction battery cars have poorer life than the Leaf, even in hot places.

Battery life isn't as simple as some have suggested.

Yes, and those vehicles mostly did not use liquid TMS and I also agree there can be chemistry problems etc. There are some other manufacturers out there that are going to find a bad reputation problem looming in hotter climates. Example KIA, Hyundai. They are doing slightly better than Nissan because of using cabin air cooling but they need to change their path and provide a better system because it is already (quietly so far) becoming a problem.

 

[SageBrush]

There are some other manufacturers out there that are going to find a bad reputation problem looming in hotter climates. Example KIA, Hyundai. They are doing slightly better than Nissan because of using cabin air cooling but they need to change their path and provide a better system because it is already (quietly so far) becoming a problem.

Reference ?

I don't follow Hyundai enough to be in the loop but I am curious how they are doing.

 

[WetEV]

I can't wait for them to fix their Achilles heel and that (of course) is their un-cooled traction battery.

Note that some liquid cooled traction battery cars have poorer battery life than the Leaf, even in hot places.

This isn't as simple as you seem to think.

 

[SageBrush]

Note that some liquid cooled traction battery cars have poorer battery life than the Leaf, even in hot places.
This isn't as simple as you seem to think.

Sure it is. A good TMS is a a great thing, everything else being equal.

 

[WetEV]

Note that some liquid cooled traction battery cars have poorer battery life than the Leaf, even in hot places.
This isn't as simple as you seem to think.

Sure it is. A good TMS is a a great thing, everything else being equal.

Which is why your laptop has one, right? Water cooled, with a chiller? And your cell phone as well?

 

[LeftieBiker]

No, that's because replacement laptop batteries and cell phone batteries are very cheap and easy to self-install, and the weight of a TMS would be a problem for consumers. If laptop batteries were essentially permanently installed, there would be better cooling systems in them.

 

[SageBrush]

Note that some liquid cooled traction battery cars have poorer battery life than the Leaf, even in hot places.
This isn't as simple as you seem to think.

Sure it is. A good TMS is a a great thing, everything else being equal.

Which is why your laptop has one, right? Water cooled, with a chiller? And your cell phone as well?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not purposely trying to be obtuse and clarify:

Sure it is. A good TMS is a great thing for battery life in a car, everything else being equal.

I am not saying that a TMS is always a smart engineering or marketing decision (though it could be), I am saying that an EV with poor battery degradation despite having a TMS either means the TMS was poorly engineered or the battery would have been much worse without it.

The LEAF battery life is poor. It would get a substantial upgrade from a good TMS.

 

[camasleaf]

Note that some liquid cooled traction battery cars have poorer battery life than the Leaf, even in hot places.

This isn't as simple as you seem to think.

Just curious what cars and where?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There are some other manufacturers out there that are going to find a bad reputation problem looming in hotter climates. Example KIA, Hyundai. They are doing slightly better than Nissan because of using cabin air cooling but they need to change their path and provide a better system because it is already (quietly so far) becoming a problem.

Reference ?

I don't follow Hyundai enough to be in the loop but I am curious how they are doing.

That is because u don't live in one of a very few select states....like most of us.

 

[Evoforce]

There are some other manufacturers out there that are going to find a bad reputation problem looming in hotter climates. Example KIA, Hyundai. They are doing slightly better than Nissan because of using cabin air cooling but they need to change their path and provide a better system because it is already (quietly so far) becoming a problem.

Reference ?

I don't follow Hyundai enough to be in the loop but I am curious how they are doing.

More than a dozen KIA Soul EVs that were purchased in California and brought to Arizona by individuals have had to have their traction batteries replaced. I have a friend who just turned his leased Soul in early because of this event after it was trucked to California for replacement. Hyundai Ioniq BEV is only offered in a few States but incorporates the same type of air cooling as in the Soul. The difference is that the Ioniq has a lifetime traction battery warranty. That means even if the cooling isn't up to snuff, you can keep getting replacements for as long as you own the car. This warranty is not transferable to subsequent owners. I see this as concrete boots for resale value on the Ioniq. The first owner will have to keep it until they die but at least they will have free battery replacements!

 

[SageBrush]

^^
I'm under the impression that the Ioniq battery warranty is for defect, not for degradation.
So for whatever reasons the batteries are being replaced, presumably heat related degradation is not one of them.