range extender

[chenyj]

You're not factoring in losses by one battery charging another.

True, Tony. Do you have an estimate?

The efficiency of the DC/DC converter is 90%. There shouldn't be any other loss since the converter output is actually part of the energy stream that drives the vehicle.

 

[Volusiano]

I hear that this battery pack chemistry is LiFE, true? Will it survive the AZ heat because apparently there's no TMS designed into it either, right?

 

[chenyj]

I hear that this battery pack chemistry is LiFE, true? Will it survive the AZ heat because apparently there's no TMS designed into it either, right?

We have over 900 units on the road and a dozen in AZ. We have not seen any issue related to heat in the LiFe packs. We control the discharge rate at 1C or 80AH. It is good for the battery.

We do have thermal monitor and cut-off feature in the BMS.

 

[bernie82]

here's the most cost effective range extender of all. It's free:
leaf range analysis
120 mile freeway trip (60 miles each way) with a 100% charge

scenero 1. driving speed at 60 mph
arrive at destination in about an hour with about 20 miles of charge left
recharge at L2 for about 4 hours which will get me back with about 10 miles of range remaining
total traveling time 6 hours

Scenero 2. driving speed 50 mph (.83 miles per minute)
arrive at destination in about 73 minutes (1 hour and 13 minutes) with about 37 miles of range remaining.
recharge at L2 for about 2.5 hours
total traveling time about 5 hours

Scenero 3. driving speed 40 mph (.66 miles per minute)
arrive at destination in about 90 minutes (1 hour and 30 minutes) with about 60 miles of range remaining.
recharge at L2 for about 45 minutes
total traveling time about 3 hours and 45 minutes

 

[lemketron]

here's the most cost effective range extender of all. It's free: ...

That's all fine and good, unless there's no L2 at (or near enough to) your destination.
Or available -- perhaps there is an L2 (or two or three), but they're in use. Or ICE'd.

The last time I parked at Moscone Center (5th & Mission) in SF, I got the fourth parking spot, but the three L2 ChargePoint ports were already in use by a Volt, a Leaf, and a Karma. (Remember, plug-in owners get "gas anxiety".)

A range extender may eliminate a Leaf owner's need to charge to get home. However, as much as I'd love to have another 20-40 miles of range, I personally don't need it often enough to justify paying $3500 for it. Even if I could simply rent one, I wouldn't pay more than $20 to do so since that's what it would typically cost us to take my wife's minivan instead.

That said, I can totally see a use for this for anyone with a 35+ mile commute, especially if they don't have guaranteed charging at work.

 

[JimSouCal]

I can totally see a use for this for anyone with a 35+ mile commute, especially if they don't have guaranteed charging at work.

That is exactly what I was thinking. There is a guy who commutes from Santa Claus Lane (North of Ventura) to Hollywood, CA, several times a week, and he must stop in Malibu to charge to make it every time. This will eliminate that need for him--totally worth it.

I might consider a battery pack upgrade once I am out of warranty, but really, I have an inside deal for a rental car at $20/day when I need it, and also an ICE standby that doesn't get driven enough and it sits on a battery tender...

My thinking is that the future will present some good energy options that may increase in engineering elegance. I love my LEAF with upgraded leather seats, full ceramic tint, and plan to keep it for as long as I can...

 

[millenniumtree]

BRILLIANT!

I would love an additional 20 miles. Our commute is 30 miles one way.
On an 80% charge, we've gotten home with anywhere from 8-18 miles remaining - in the summer, usually with no A/C. Wisconsin winters will take a dramatic toll on our range.

Nissan made a judgement call on capacity - it was a good starting point, and it's working for us very nicely, but even 10 more miles of range would really help!

I'd be saving up for the 8kWh model right now if we weren't leasing.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'd be saving up for the 8kWh model right now if we weren't leasing.

It's perfect for leasing, since it's easy to remove.

 

[EVPowers]

I have been installing Enginer systems since nearly the time they came out

It is easy to remove, but there will be a few mounting holes in the car that will need to be filled/covered. Not that big a deal, but you should be aware of it.

If anyone is is interested in getting one installed in the Upper Midwest, feel free to give me a call.
608-729-4082

 

[TomT]

Yeah, a 32Kwh pack would have made a big difference but then, the price would have been even higher..

Nissan made a judgement call on capacity - it was a good starting point, and it's working for us very nicely, but even 10 more miles of range would really help!

 

[N952JL]

I love the comments that this issue has generated. There are other options out there. Ingineer has a microturbin from capstone with a generator. I believe it runs on Natural Gas and provides enough juice to drive the leaf @ 70 and keep the main batteries charged. Uses it for long trips, then unhitches the trailer when he reaches his destinatation. A person in UK is building (with Jaguar backing) a microturbin that only 4.5 inches accross and less than 12 long. (http://www.bladonjets.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false They have what looks like a very nice system but are being very closed mouthed about it. I don't know if jaguar is keeping it under wraps or what.

Between that and better batteries, we should be able to reach the sweet point of 350 mile interstate speeds range. That would be a game changer as the BEV could then compete with the ICE. If the improvements in batteries are as advertised the same size (physical) battery would be about 75 to 96 kWh (the 100 to 400 wh/g) and would cost about 50% of the current cost. If that is five years away then we will be able to skip the microgenerator and go directly to pure batteries. a 96 kWh battery pack would be able to power a Leaf for about 220 interstate miles and 350 around town. (80% useable @ 3 miles/kw interstate and 4.5 mile/kw around town, without climate control.

 

[gbshaun]

This sounds like a terrific option, and could make all the difference for some drivers whose LEAF doesn't quite have the range for their commute.
I may consider it in a few years if my 55mi freeway r/t becomes a challenge (or requires me to get EV's a bad reputation by slowing traffic!).

How does this work with the LEAF's display? Does the car include the additional capacity in the projected range?

We know reduced capacity = fewer capacity bars (but still max 12 charge bars), so what does increased capacity do?... presumably 12 capacity bars, but will all 12 charge bars display for many miles, or will each bar now represent ~1.7, 2.0, 2.3 kWh ?

Will the time-to-charge indicator be accurate still?

Shaun

 

[eHelmholtz]

The enginer systems really do look like viable options and they fit right into the recessed trunk space. I only wished that they were available when I was decided on alternatives, including keeping an ICE based car: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8244" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[chenyj]

This sounds like a terrific option, and could make all the difference for some drivers whose LEAF doesn't quite have the range for their commute.
I may consider it in a few years if my 55mi freeway r/t becomes a challenge (or requires me to get EV's a bad reputation by slowing traffic!).

How does this work with the LEAF's display? Does the car include the additional capacity in the projected range?

We know reduced capacity = fewer capacity bars (but still max 12 charge bars), so what does increased capacity do?... presumably 12 capacity bars, but will all 12 charge bars display for many miles, or will each bar now represent ~1.7, 2.0, 2.3 kWh ?

Will the time-to-charge indicator be accurate still?

Shaun

The kit is independent and does not communicate with the Leaf computer. The display will show whatever as the stock Leaf does today. The only difference is that the charge bars will decrease slower than stock one and you get miles from it at the end of the day.

The modular design makes the kit fit universally to any hybrid, PEV and EV.

 

[EVPowers]

Just wanted to make a clarification.

I confirmed with Enginer that there is not a 12kWh kit available for Leaf at this time.
Electrically it would be possible, but space-wise, it would be a challenge.

 

[JimLovewell]

Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack Questions.

1) I have the two Nissan/Panasonic Level 1 cordsets upgraded by EVSE Upgrade to work off 240/208 VAC. One of the units is set to 12 amps and the other to 16 amps. With an Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack installed when I charge using the upgraded EVSE what is the total current that the Leaf try to draw? On the 12 amp. unit is it 12 amp. for the Leaf’s charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 12 + 5 = 17 total? And on the one that is 16 amp. is it 16 amp. for the Leafs charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 16 + 5 = 22 total? Or does the system behave itself and draw no more that the EVSE equipment says it can supply?

2) When the Leaf is charged to 100% does the Auxillary pack start charging the main battery (1C is about 4000 watts ) right away? What if one turns on the Leaf when it is 100% charged and it sits in the driveway waiting for their spouse for 10 to 15 minutes. Will the main battery get overcharged? What is the algorithm that the Auxiliary pack uses to supply juice to the main pack?

3) It says that an experienced installer should take no more that 2 to 4 hours to install. Does any know what they are charging?

4) Is there anyone who has installed one of these units want to chime in and tell us about your experience with the product?

5) I have been unable to find any reliability information (other than from “adric22”) on Enginer’s products. Do others find that Enginer’s products fail 2 to 3 times a year? When EVSE Upgrade modified two of my Nissan/Pansonic L1 EVSE units they have worked flawless. I have charged some 300 plus times at approximately 10KWh per charging session (around 3 hours per charge).

 

[chenyj]

Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack Questions.

1) I have the two Nissan/Panasonic Level 1 cordsets upgraded by EVSE Upgrade to work off 240/208 VAC. One of the units is set to 12 amps and the other to 16 amps. With an Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack installed when I charge using the upgraded EVSE what is the total current that the Leaf try to draw? On the 12 amp. unit is it 12 amp. for the Leaf’s charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 12 + 5 = 17 total? And on the one that is 16 amp. is it 16 amp. for the Leafs charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 16 + 5 = 22 total? Or does the system behave itself and draw no more that the EVSE equipment says it can supply?

2) When the Leaf is charged to 100% does the Auxillary pack start charging the main battery (1C is about 4000 watts ) right away? What if one turns on the Leaf when it is 100% charged and it sits in the driveway waiting for their spouse for 10 to 15 minutes. Will the main battery get overcharged? What is the algorithm that the Auxiliary pack uses to supply juice to the main pack?

3) It says that an experienced installer should take no more that 2 to 4 hours to install. Does any know what they are charging?

4) Is there anyone who has installed one of these units want to chime in and tell us about your experience with the product?

5) I have been unable to find any reliability information (other than from “adric22”) on Enginer’s products. Do others find that Enginer’s products fail 2 to 3 times a year? When EVSE Upgrade modified two of my Nissan/Pansonic L1 EVSE units they have worked flawless. I have charged some 300 plus times at approximately 10KWh per charging session (around 3 hours per charge).

1) You can use the upgraded EVSE to charger both traction battery and auxiliary battery at total 17A @ 240VAC. If you have only 120VAC source, you need to charge the traction battery full before turning on the auxiliary pack due to limited current.

2) The auxiliary pack is voltage controlled. When the traction pack is full, it outputs 2A at 392V, just enough to keep the vehicle on. The current will increase gradually as the main pack is being discharged and below 380V, the auxiliary pack will reach max current of 10A until it is depleted. So it won't overcharge the traction battery.

3) If the installer has done it before, it would take about 4 man-hour to finish the job. Please also allow additional 2 hours for test drive and owner training. The installation fee is between $500-$1000 depending on service offering and cost of living in the area.

5) Enginer has high failure rate in the first few revision. At the current version 6 kit, the rate has dropped to less than 5%. Although it is much better than before, we still have a long way to go to monitor the supplier's quality control. The claim of "Enginer’s products fail 2 to 3 times a year" is a bit of exaggerated. We are thankful for early adapter's support and I hope consumers could continue to support us to make the product perfected.

 

[EVPowers]

As an installer for Enginer in Wisconsin, I can tell you that we generally have customer's drop their cars off in the morning, and pick up the next day at lunchtime.

This gives us plenty of time to do the install and do testing once the system is in the vehicle.
We also spend time with customers when they come to pick it up going on a quick drive and doing a bit of education.

If anyone is in the upper Midwest feel free to call me at 608-629-7082 to discuss the system.

Also, if you are in the SF Bay Area, on September 15th Enginer will have a booth at Green Drive Expo, a green-transportation car show. 10am-5pm. It would be a good place to talk to Enginer directly and check out the product.

 

[N952JL]

1. The EVSE Upgrade to work on 240/208. I do not believe the answers given were correct. Granted the Car may desire and request 17 or 22, but the units can only give 12 and 16. The car will have to settle for 12 or 16 and make do.

Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack Questions.

1) I have the two Nissan/Panasonic Level 1 cordsets upgraded by EVSE Upgrade to work off 240/208 VAC. One of the units is set to 12 amps and the other to 16 amps. With an Enginer Auxiliary Battery Pack installed when I charge using the upgraded EVSE what is the total current that the Leaf try to draw? On the 12 amp. unit is it 12 amp. for the Leaf’s charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 12 + 5 = 17 total? And on the one that is 16 amp. is it 16 amp. for the Leafs charger plus 5 amps. for the Auxiliary charger, 16 + 5 = 22 total? Or does the system behave itself and draw no more that the EVSE equipment says it can supply?

2) When the Leaf is charged to 100% does the Auxillary pack start charging the main battery (1C is about 4000 watts ) right away? What if one turns on the Leaf when it is 100% charged and it sits in the driveway waiting for their spouse for 10 to 15 minutes. Will the main battery get overcharged? What is the algorithm that the Auxiliary pack uses to supply juice to the main pack?

3) It says that an experienced installer should take no more that 2 to 4 hours to install. Does any know what they are charging?

4) Is there anyone who has installed one of these units want to chime in and tell us about your experience with the product?

5) I have been unable to find any reliability information (other than from “adric22”) on Enginer’s products. Do others find that Enginer’s products fail 2 to 3 times a year? When EVSE Upgrade modified two of my Nissan/Pansonic L1 EVSE units they have worked flawless. I have charged some 300 plus times at approximately 10KWh per charging session (around 3 hours per charge).

 

[mckemie]

I hear that this battery pack chemistry is LiFE, true? Will it survive the AZ heat because apparently there's no TMS designed into it either, right?

I am surprised that the apparent mistake Nissan made in battery chemistry choice is not more discussed here.

When I bought my Leaf, I knew that LiMn batteries were, in general, not nearly as trouble free or as long lived as LiFePo. But, I figured "Nissan must know what they're doing" and bought the Leaf despite my reservations about the battery chemistry. Of course I am disappointed that my Leaf battery is dying prematurely but have hopes that Nissan will make it right.

I have several LFP conversions, all with more age than the Leaf and one with far more miles. But, it is only the Leaf whose battery threatens to die prematurely. My experience is that LFP is not likely to need any special thermal care.

Incidentally, I now believe Nissan has provided such poor instrumentation in an effort to hide battery problems from Leaf owners.