range extender

[fotajoye]

Leaf owners, now is the time of your discontent...if you can wait, I think within the next couple of years, when the Leaf batteries start reaching "end of life," there will be an after-market for upgraded batteries. I expect some enterprising company to offer higher density, lower-cost, battery packs at a reduced price than the current Nissan packs. Hopefully you can have your choice of only buying battery packs based on your mileage needs so you don't carry around the extra weight and hopefully if you need to go out of range, there will be a fast-charge station along the way and the battery pack can use it without damage.

Nissan cannot compete in this market because of the ridiculous prices their dealer's charge for parts and service. Remember, the dealer is really in the repair business since he makes most of his money from the service bays by charging sky-high prices.

If you own a Leaf, it's to your long term advantage for Nissan to sell as many of these commuter cars as possible with the current low-energy density batteries. This will help assure a good market for the improved future battery packs that will allow the car to be classified as a true freeway cruiser.

Having said all this, I can only hope this after-market battery upgrade will be the case. EVs don't require the maintenance that ICE cars require, perhaps changing brake pads and batteries will be all that is required in the future. I like Elon Musk's approach when he says "Dealer's are not needed." EVs and Elon Musk are certainly disruptive to the current ways Dealers screw the ICE car buying Public.

And, BTW, do you really want to spend all that time on an extender science project?

 

[martinlangley]

We have just the product in development!

Its a microturbine driven industrial alternator
capable of delivering 5 KW continuously and
is powered by LPG which you can get at many
gas stations.

We would like to get an idea of the level of
interest the product would generate in the
Nissan user base and whether it would be worth
our while in bringing the product to a saleable
condition.

Draft spec is: Weight 50kg 9 (+fuel)
Rated output 5kw
Capacity 14kg
Requires exhaust vent
and air intake

Price (provisionally) is 5,000 usd

Keen to hear from you guys

Martin Langley

 

[surfingslovak]

We have just the product in development!

Its a microturbine driven industrial alternator
capable of delivering 5 KW continuously and
is powered by LPG which you can get at many
gas stations.

Good to hear! This power level would not be enough to sustain freeway speeds with the LEAF. Is it meant for continuous battery recharge?

 

[edatoakrun]

We have just the product in development!

Its a microturbine driven industrial alternator
capable of delivering 5 KW continuously and
is powered by LPG which you can get at many
gas stations.

We would like to get an idea of the level of
interest the product ...

Requires exhaust vent
and air intake

Price (provisionally) is 5,000 usd

Keen to hear from you guys

Martin Langley

If this statement indicates your product could be installed on the BEV (either in the trunk area of the LEAF, or even better, in the unused spare tire space below it), rather than on a trailer, I would be much more interested.

You might want to look at the thread below for many of the views MNL members have already expressed on the subject.

edatoakrun

...A functional range extender would consist of:

A small displacement (200-600 CC) ICE generator, run at highest-efficiency rpm, to recharge the battery pack. Generator output would not be sufficient to drive the vehicle, just enough to extend the battery pack range to the next convenient recharge location.

It would not run on gasoline, but a less polluting, and more stable fuel, such as propane (easier refueling) or CNG (lower cost). 5 gallons of Propane, for example, would probably offer about 200 miles of range extension for a LEAF-sized BEV.

The fuel would also be available to a combustion cabin heater, the one use for which battery energy storage is particularly inefficient.

I think this could be integrated into the design of BEVs (and maybe even as a portable unit, and available for rent, as many have fantasized) at lower cost, and lower weight, than the huge battery packs some BEV manufactures seem to think are advisable...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dgpcolorado]

...
Draft spec is: Weight 50kg 9 (+fuel)
Rated output 5kw
Capacity 14kg
Requires exhaust vent
and air intake

Price (provisionally) is 5,000 usd...

Is this intended to be a generator that can fit in the trunk? 50 kg is pretty heavy to be lifting in and out of the trunk. Or is it intended to fit on a trailer?

At what voltage is the 5 kW output?

What do you mean by "Capacity 14kg"?

$5000 is pretty expensive for a generator, even if it could handle Level 2 charging; what is the advantage of a turbine versus a conventional ICE generator?

 

[rmay635703]

...

Price (provisionally) is 5,000 usd...

Is this intended to be a generator that can fit in the trunk? 50 kg is pretty heavy to be lifting in and out of the trunk. Or is it intended to fit on a trailer?

At what voltage is the 5 kW output?

What do you mean by "Capacity 14kg"?

$5000 is pretty expensive for a generator, even if it could handle Level 2 charging; what is the advantage of a turbine versus a conventional ICE generator?

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/yanmar_4kw.asp?page=yanmar_4kw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only genset efficient enough to justify in a leaf is listed above, anything else is too thirsty.

My guess the purpose of the turbine is to increase efficiency, military turbines can go upwards of 40% eff, small gas gensets are typically 10-20% (aka terrible)

The real questions are
1. Can it run while driving
2. How many GPH vrs watts does it do?

Needless to say a cleaner fuel is not cleaner if you need to burn a lot more of it right?

 

[N952JL]

We have just the product in development!

Its a microturbine driven industrial alternator
capable of delivering 5 KW continuously and
is powered by LPG which you can get at many
gas stations.

We would like to get an idea of the level of
interest the product would generate in the
Nissan user base and whether it would be worth
our while in bringing the product to a saleable
condition.

Draft spec is: Weight 50kg 9 (+fuel)
Rated output 5kw
Capacity 14kg
Requires exhaust vent
and air intake

Price (provisionally) is 5,000 usd

Keen to hear from you guys

Martin Langley

I would love to have more information. Is it a trailer? Does it slide into a receiver? How large is it? With only 5Kw how much extra range would one 20lbs LP take (BBQ size) would this give you?

 

[fotajoye]

I don't want to dissuade you from building this item; but, how does the analysis compare this to the installation of an augmentation battery instead?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't see anything about the kind of power output. 120 volt only, or 230 as well? Approximated sine wave or pure sine wave? If this is just a clean-burning home type generator, the power it puts out wouldn't be good for the Leaf's charger. It might not work at all.

I can see this being used as a site recharger, but still find the thought of taking it driving with you kind of appalling...

 

[adric22]

5Kw is not enough power to sustain a leaf going down the highway. Heck, it won't even sustain a leaf going down any road at probably more than 10 mph.

 

[KJD]

If you really want a range extender, maybe you should just buy a BMW i3 instead of the LEAF.

 

[Sublime]

5Kw is not enough power to sustain a leaf going down the highway. Heck, it won't even sustain a leaf going down any road at probably more than 10 mph.

Exactly. A 5kwh generator, if kicked on with a full pack, would get you about an extra 15 or 20 miles if you were driving 70mph. In other words useless.

 

[surfingslovak]

5Kw is not enough power to sustain a leaf going down the highway. Heck, it won't even sustain a leaf going down any road at probably more than 10 mph.

It should be enough for city driving, but freeway would require at least 10 kW, and even that will feel underpowered.

 mph  |  kW
 ---- | ----  
 35   |  5.6
 40   |  6.8
 45   |  8.7
 50   | 10.9 
 55   | 12.8
 60   | 15.4
 65   | 18.0
 70   | 21.2
 75   | 25.0

 

[hill]

I get a tad better than the chart by running high pressure in the treads .... VERY high pressure ... behind the Ralphs grocery semi.

 

[TomT]

Yep, I find the whole idea of trying to make the Leaf do something it was never designed for and is very poor at simply silly.

If that is what you want, buy a Volt or an I3 or something else designed for the purpose.

If you really want a range extender, maybe you should just buy a BMW i3 instead of the LEAF.

 

[surfingslovak]

I get a tad better than the chart by running high pressure in the treads .... VERY high pressure ... behind the Ralphs grocery semi.

Yes, that table is directly derived from Tony's. I think he took care that everything was stock on his LEAF, including tire pressure ;-)

 

[rmay635703]

Yep, I find the whole idea of trying to make the Leaf do something it was never designed for and is very poor at simply silly.

If that is what you want, buy a Volt or an I3 or something else designed for the purpose.

If you really want a range extender, maybe you should just buy a BMW i3 instead of the LEAF.

http://www.generatorsales.com/Order/yanmar_4kw.asp?page=yanmar_4kw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like my miles zx40 you can get 75-83 MPG at 35mph using the above genset (running straight off diesel)

I am uncertain who thinks a 20 mile range increase on a 75mile range car is insignificant (26%) also understand that if you stop somewhere in the middle you gain more range and that during low speed driving you also gain range. (aka I get 22 mile range increase at 65mph)

Even the 42mpg you get at 65mph (assumes the charging the battery loss since you can't drive off the head all the way)
does not sound that bad? Does it?

Cheers
Ryan

 

[edatoakrun]

If you want to calculate the increased range for a LEAF using a 5 kW generator, I would start with the measured kW use of a LEAF in constant-speed tests from a reliable source:

Average DC power from battery (kW):

9.2 45-mph
16.0 60-mph
22.7 70-mph

(page 2)

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, the increased range from an on-board generator for LEAF 0356 (as for all BEVs) would be highly dependent on driving speed.

I think the increased range from a generator able to deliver 5 kW to the battery, after efficiency loses, for this LEAF (apparently, an Arizona LEAF with somewhat reduced available battery capacity) could be up to:

From ~53 to ~70 miles at 70 mph.

From ~86 to ~180 miles at 45 mph.

 

[Sublime]

If you want to calculate the increased range for a LEAF using a 5 kW generator, I would start with the measured kW use of a LEAF in constant-speed tests from a reliable source:

Average DC power from battery (kW):

9.2 45-mph
16.0 60-mph
22.7 70-mph

(page 2)

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, the increased range from an on-board generator for LEAF 0356 (as for all BEVs) would be highly dependent on driving speed.

I think the increased range from a generator able to deliver 5 kW to the battery, after efficiency loses, for this LEAF (apparently, an Arizona LEAF with somewhat reduced available battery capacity) could be up to:

~53 to ~70 miles at 70 mph.

~86 to ~180 miles at 45 mph.

Just to be clear, you're saying the range would increase from ~53 miles (without 5kW genset) to about ~70 miles with the genset at 70mph.

 

[jhm614]

If you want to calculate the increased range for a LEAF using a 5 kW generator, I would start with the measured kW use of a LEAF in constant-speed tests from a reliable source:

Average DC power from battery (kW):

9.2 45-mph
16.0 60-mph
22.7 70-mph

(page 2)

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, the increased range from an on-board generator for LEAF 0356 (as for all BEVs) would be highly dependent on driving speed.

I think the increased range from a generator able to deliver 5 kW to the battery, after efficiency loses, for this LEAF (apparently, an Arizona LEAF with somewhat reduced available battery capacity) could be up to:

~53 to ~70 miles at 70 mph.

~86 to ~180 miles at 45 mph.

Is this with the gen set running the entire time? If so, yuck. Having a gas engine that runs the entire time you are driving is what I am trying to avoid with the Leaf.