really low performance and long charge time on new 2019 leaf
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carmicLEAF
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Absolutely no idea. Nor did we know it was something to ask about.
My husband is an energy efficiency consultant and designer and he's totally beside himself about this bit of info.
My husband is an energy efficiency consultant and designer and he's totally beside himself about this bit of info.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Thanks for filling in some details that best you could, after the fact.carmicLEAF said:
151 mile range EPA rating is based upon tests below:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052810/http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q3/the_truth_about_epa_city_highway_mpg_estimates-feature
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml - click thru the various tabs
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA%20test%20procedure%20for%20EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf
Notice the highest average speed on any of the test cycles is only 48.4 mph? And, there's only one test cycle where it's cold (20 F) with an average speed of 21.2 mph?
Notice that http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295 that efficiency and thus range autonomous goes way down as speed rises? (There's no 40 kWh chart yet.)
cwerdna
Well-known member
Heh. There was https://web.archive.org/web/20170717073322/http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=22134. 137 F is ~58.3 C.SageBrush said:
We do not have heated seats or steering wheel- that only came with the SL model which we could not afford. Does that mean we don't have the Cold Weather Package? Dealer mentioned nothing of Cold Weather Package and needing this.
Looks like my worst fear was correct. You don't have a lemon, but the dealer lied to you, if you are relaying what you were told accurately. The Cold Weather Package is available on all three trims (or may be standard on the SL - I forget); on the SV it includes heated front seats and steering wheel, and a "hybrid" heating system that includes a heat pump for conditions just like you experienced. You used such a huge amount of power on that trip because the heating system in your car is terrible for actual cold climates, not because you greedily used too much heat. If there is any way to document that you were told that only the SL has the Cold Weather Package, I'd try to return the car that way. Nissan and "their" criminal dealers (they can't actually own franchises in the US, just lease them to crooks) should be prosecuted for **** like this.
carmicLEAF
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So, yes, it appears that the All Weather Package SV, which includes the Hybrid Heating System, is available as on 'option' on the SV. It seems the problem is that the dealer did not have a SV car on his lot with said All Weather SV Package. The only other 2019 they had was a SL, which did have the All Weather Package (S or SV package I'm not sure) and leather seats and was $3000 more. He said you only really need heated seats with leather so why spend the extra $3k. No mention whatsoever of this Hybrid Heating System necessity. Not sure if we can use this to get an upgraded car or not!
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Have seen this a few places BUT....
Maybe is a European thing only? Anyone see this in the US?
carmicLEAF said:
It won't be easy, but the salesman or dealer lied to you, and told you that you didn't need a package that many dealers in Northern states won't order cars without. We saw this problem for years with the S: people would buy it in states for which the mediocre heating system isn't well suited. Now that the cold weather features that USED TO BE STANDARD ON THE SV are optional, (to hold down the base price) Nissan dealers are in many cases lying to unload cars that don't have the necessary option package for driving above the Mason-Dixon line. You aren't going to ever be happy with this car, I'm afraid, so try your very best to get an SV (NOT an S, which lacks the heat pump even with the CW package) with the Cold Weather Package in its place. You will probably have to escalate this to Nissan. Remember: this is a case of fraudulent sales tactics, not of you failing to request what was needed. You were lied to by a Nissan-affiliated dealership.
For typical non-EV-hardcore drivers, the heat pump is more important. It allows use of the heater without greatly reducing range in temperatures above about 25F. The heated seats and wheel do allow reduced heater use, but few non-enthusiasts will tolerate a car with the heater off in Winter, even with heated seats. Not to mention the fact that the lack of rear seat heaters would make any back seat passengers utterly miserable with the cabin heater off or very low.
My figure is based on almost 6 years of experience with this heat pump system in Winter, not on reading a graph. The heat pump works best at temps above freezing, and while it technically keeps working down to single digits, the big hit in range happens below roughly 25F. Below about 14F the benefit of the unit, while not ended, is no longer noticeable. This has been confirmed by others.
Triggerhappy007
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Not in the S trim like LeftieBiker said in post #30.SageBrush said:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297
This is for the OP: some tips for the first generation Leaf that are often applicable to the 2018. There is also one new trick for the 2018 only: you can use the Floor + Defrost vent setting with partial recirculate, for better heating efficiency with less fog. Just set the vent to the above combination, then press Recirculate. Wait a moment, then press and hold the Recirculate button just until it the light on it starts to flash. Then release the button. It will flash twice and the light will go out, if you do it correctly. You now have a mix of 70% recirculated cabin air and 30% fresh air, approximately. Use fan speeds 1 or 2 with this and the heater should use noticeably less energy.
This is for the OP: some tips for the first generation Leaf that are often applicable to the 2018. There is also one new trick for the 2018 only: you can use the Floor + Defrost vent setting with partial recirculate, for better heating efficiency with less fog. Just set the vent to the above combination, then press Recirculate. Wait a moment, then press and hold the Recirculate button just until it the light on it starts to flash. Then release the button. It will flash twice and the light will go out, if you do it correctly. You now have a mix of 70% recirculated cabin air and 30% fresh air, approximately. Use fan speeds 1 or 2 with this and the heater should use noticeably less energy.
carmicLEAF
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So, I get that having the more efficient heat pump heater would help with range and efficiency to some degree - maybe it's worth going to the dealer. But it still seems the bigger problem is the overheating battery and inability to charge multiple times for a longer distance trip - the "RapidGate" issue. Seems this could be a pretty simple fix -a small fan to take the waste heat from the battery and distribute it into the car, as needed. Our water heater heat pump does this as does our heat pump dryer. Could also likely find a way to use waste heat to charge the battery.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
What I do is floor vent with recirc on with BOTH heat and A/C on. This has reduced my fogging and defrost need considerably. On some days, I am able to make my entire 12 mile, 18ish min commute without defrost at all.
Not sure what power this saves but I am doing it to breathe much less exhaust and for that purpose, it works very well.
