really low performance and long charge time on new 2019 leaf

[Foschas]

Seems this could be a pretty simple fix -a small fan to take the waste heat from the battery and distribute it into the car, as needed. Our water heater heat pump does this as does our heat pump dryer. Could also likely find a way to use waste heat to charge the battery.

My first gen Prius did just that. Had a fan that would pull cabin air over the battery. Not sure what the parameters were or if it bidirectional though. Isn’t this what the E-Plus is going to do?

 

[SageBrush]

The LEAF battery does not have any interior cooling pathways for air or liquid to come in from the outside. They can push air over the bottom surface of the battery on the outside. If ambient air is used then it is about the same cooling effect as a slow driving speed. Pushing air that has been cooled by the car's AC will help with rapidGate at a high energy cost.

 

[specialgreen]

I'm jealous of your Net Zero house! That's been a dream of mine for a few years. By my calculations, I'd need about 20kw of solar (due to heating in Minnesota), so I have lots of work to do.

I think Nissan has targeted the 40kwhr Leaf at drivers who only need to travel about two "tanks' worth" (starting the drive at 100%, and then fast-charging only once during the trip). Even in my 30kwhr Leaf (without "rapidgate"), my charge rate slows-down noticeably on the 3rd fast-charge, after about 250 miles. Nissan isn't alone in this: Bolt owners have noticed throttling of fast-charge (even though the Bolt has a battery temperature management system).

It may help to look over the "range chart" for the 30kwhr battery:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295&hilit=range+chart&start=450#p489173

I don't think Tony has made one for 40kwhr yet. But you can see that at 75mph, a new 30kwhr Leaf could drive 92 miles, but at 60mph could travel 120 miles. This means that if you need to maximize range, you probably want to avoid the freeway and drive the "old highway" routes. In a gas car, slowing to 35mph for each town hurts your gas mileage, but with regenerative braking, it doesn't hurt much. Gas cars have poor efficiency at "part load", so driving 60 vs 75 mph will only reduce fuel consumption by less than 10%. But in an EV, you get to realize the true efficiencies of slowing down, and save more than 20%.

Also, I'd suggest reading

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/22/2018-leaf-vs-long-journeys-best-driving-strategy/

...for clear graphs of how the battery temperature rises while charging, and falls while driving. The general advice there is that the extra time you spend driving slowly does triple duty: not only is it using much less energy ( so a longer distance between charges), but it also means fewer kilowatt hours of charging (so less heating-up the battery pack during charging), and the extra drive time is also "time well spent" cooling the battery, getting ready for the next charge. By driving more slowly, you can actually speed-up your trip!

Regarding heated seats, I added Sojoy SJ154A seat covers in the back, and found them to use less watts than our factory heated front seats, while producing more heat (the High setting is uncomfortably hot, except for a short burst of heat when you first get in the car). If you want to add four heated seat covers, you may need to run a wire directly from the fuse panel and not use the cigarette lighter. But I wouldn't worry about a lack of heated seats, because you can fix that.

Not having heated steering wheel is annoying (I wear gloves). Not having heated side mirrors is annoying when they get frozen sleet on them, and you have to chip at them with a scraper.

The heat pump is a funny one: as battery ranges get up to 60 kwhrs (e.g. Bolt, Tesla), many competing cars are not using a heat pump; people seem to put up with the reduced range. Would the extra $3k be better spent on the heat pump, or on a bigger battery? I think if you could get a battery which was 20% bigger at the same price as adding the heat-pump, then I'd rather pay for a bigger battery. Yes, you could heat with it, but in summer you could also drive with it.

Unfortunately, with only 30 or 40 kwhrs, I think the lack of heat pump is a bigger limitation than the heated seats/steering wheel/mirrors. If you are able to get Nissan to let you upgrade to the SL (or the rare SV with heat pump), I'd say "go for it." Or trade for a reservation on the 60 kw-hr model (reservations not available just yet, but should cost about $5k extra). The 60-kwhr model is supposed to have an unsphisticated air-cooled battery (similar to 2018 Soul EV and Ionic EV). That may not enable full-bore "road trip" charging, but should be an improvement.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So, I get that having the more efficient heat pump heater would help with range and efficiency to some degree - maybe it's worth going to the dealer. But it still seems the bigger problem is the overheating battery and inability to charge multiple times for a longer distance trip - the "RapidGate" issue. Seems this could be a pretty simple fix -a small fan to take the waste heat from the battery and distribute it into the car, as needed. Our water heater heat pump does this as does our heat pump dryer. Could also likely find a way to use waste heat to charge the battery.

With a heat pump-equipped car you would need to charge less often in Winter. MUCH less often in temps above freezing. How many miles do you need to drive, exactly?

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you are able to get Nissan to let you upgrade to the SL (or the rare SV with heat pump), I'd say "go for it.

Generally a good post, but why do you call an SV with the Cold Weather Package "rare"? Is Nissan sending lots of SVs unequipped with it into colder areas? If so they are a truly Horrible company.

 

[specialgreen]

why do you call an SV with the Cold Weather Package "rare"?

When I was shopping (2017), the Leafs I saw at 3 dealers appeared to be "stock" for their trim level (with the exception of QC on Leaf-S). I just took a look at new 2019 SVs for sale in Minneapolis right now on cars.com:

- Yes "Cold Weather Package", or mention of Hybrid Heater
+ BP, BP, WZ, IGH, BV, BP, WZ
- No "Cold Weather Package", no mention of Hybrid Heater
+ EDP, BP, MW, MW, MW, MW, MW, MW, EDP, MW, MW, MW, MW, MW, MW, MW

7 with heat pump, and 16 without. It looks like it is broken-down by dealer. 3 of 4 SVs at Brooklyn Park Nissan have heat-pump. Both Wayzata SVs do. The lone SV at each of Burnsville and Inver Grove Heights does. But both Eden Prairie SVs don't have heat pump, and none of the 13 SVs in Maplewood do. So, basically there are four helpful Nissan dealers with all or most SVs having heat-pump; and two dealers with no heat pump on SV. Maybe some dealers are making a strategic decision to push customers to SL (though why would you stock 13 SVs without heat pump then?).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Christ - in Minnesota!?? It may be stock getting moved from warmer states to colder, but it's still terrible. Sounds like we need a topic for 2018 Leaf shopping, and Pronto.

 

[cwerdna]

If you are able to get Nissan to let you upgrade to the SL (or the rare SV with heat pump), I'd say "go for it.

Generally a good post, but why do you call an SV with the Cold Weather Package "rare"? Is Nissan sending lots of SVs unequipped with it into colder areas? If so they are a truly Horrible company.

Does anyone know what the ordering/sending of vehicles process is for Nissan? Does Nissan corporate dictate what trim and equipment levels the dealer receives and what ratios or is it up to the dealer? Or, is it something in between or both?

For Toyota, at least in 2005, what my salesman told me when it came to Priuses (there were multi-month long waiting lists and 0 Priuses @ dealers, not even for test drive in many cases) is that basically, the dealer orders whatever (color, equipment level, etc.) and the reason for him taking down my preferences of color and equipment is so that he can match those on the waiting list w/incoming vehicles. I gave him 3 color choices in descending order and a single equipment level (package 6 aka NL). That was it.

He called me in early Jan 2006 when I was at CES in Vegas saying basically "hey, we got a white Prius NL on a boat near Hawaii right now. Want it?" I had 24 hours to say yes or pass (since it was my last color choice). If I passed, he'd call the next person in line w/a preference match and he'd DEFINITELY be able to sell it given the waiting lists. I ended up taking it.

If Nissan North America's process is like that what I described for Toyota, it could be either dealer incompetence (which would be no surprise) or they think they can more easily sell a cheaper car due to not having the cold weather package, screw the downside to the customer.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Trying to remember back when I was looking for a 2018 Leaf... I was told that the dealership I leased from doesn't get cars without the Cold Weather Package (CWP). I was also told about "the pipeline" and how dealerships could try to reserve cars in it, or then trade with other dealerships for cars they later had in stock (which was how I got mine). What was never made clear was what exactly determined how many cars with what packages were put INTO said pipeline...

 

[cwerdna]

Dealer trades can definitely happen, but I have no idea how much it happens in the background, if it all.

I've gotten new cars twice via a dealer trade (purchase of a Maxima and lease of a Leaf). However, the dealer has to have a car to trade, so I'm told.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Dealerships generally only trade cars to satisfy customers who aren't going to buy what they have in stock. As I said, my car came from Connecticut on a dealer trade.

There is now a topic on the above debacle.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

When I picked up my 2018 after a near month long torturous wait, my dealer showed me what he ordered and what he received and there was 1-2 matches on the list. And yes, he got SVs without climate which was my first choice. FYI; he considers them all but unsellable. This was the reason I got the S because it was available, had the two "musts" of DCFC and climate. My other option was to wait at least another 2 weeks and maybe as much as a month. Not happening.

As it turned out, I am glad I didn't spend the extra money.

 

[specialgreen]

I posted a new thread regarding new BMS which changes rapidgate:

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=27453&p=545009&hilit=rapidgate#p545009

This may interest the OP.

 

[GerryAZ]

I don't know if it is different now, but when I had to replace my 2011 in January of 2015 I called my salesman and told him what I needed. He looked at the factory inventory and production schedules through their online system. He found one with the options I wanted that was in final assembly so we ordered it. The dealer received it in early February. So in my case, the dealer (and customer) chose what options to order.